Greetings from Croatia

[Pešekan]

Greetings from the sunny Croatia! You may have heard of us as a holiday destination

I have been engraving as a hobby for around two years, but mostly with rotary tools. It is a fun hobby with a good earning opportunity. But naturally, lately I have been wanting to expand my portfolio and to start with hand engraving with gravers. I have found vast amounts of information over the internet, especially YouTube and this forum.

One thing that I am missing is, where to get the "starter kit" equipment in Europe? I have studied with which tools I would like to start with, but every shop I find is US based.

Thank you very much for all the information you are willing to share with me. Also, if there are any engravers from this region (Balkans), I would be really happy to get in contact and ask a few questions.

Best regards,
Mauro

 

[monk]

is there an outlet available to you from the grs company ? if you can do this on a more localized basis, it will save you time and money. i'd guess buying direct from grs in the usa would likely entail lots of money to get the materials thru customs.
all else failing, it is possible to make virtually all the tools you would need. doing this would side track you from actual engraving time. i hope you're able to get what you need from commercial sources. good luck

 

[oniemarc]

is there an outlet available to you from the grs company ? if you can do this on a more localized basis, it will save you time and money. i'd guess buying direct from grs in the usa would likely entail lots of money to get the materials thru customs.
all else failing, it is possible to make virtually all the tools you would need. doing this would side track you from actual engraving time. i hope you're able to get what you need from commercial sources. good luck

As far as I can find on the GRS website, they don't ship internationally from the US. I wanted to buy a ballvise, since I can't get them locally...even through the distibutor here.
Could be they changed that policy though, but as far as I know...they don't.

Marc

 

[oniemarc]

Greetings from the sunny Croatia! You may have heard of us as a holiday destination

I have been engraving as a hobby for around two years, but mostly with rotary tools. It is a fun hobby with a good earning opportunity. But naturally, lately I have been wanting to expand my portfolio and to start with hand engraving with gravers. I have found vast amounts of information over the internet, especially YouTube and this forum.

One thing that I am missing is, where to get the "starter kit" equipment in Europe? I have studied with which tools I would like to start with, but every shop I find is US based.

Thank you very much for all the information you are willing to share with me. Also, if there are any engravers from this region (Balkans), I would be really happy to get in contact and ask a few questions.

Best regards,
Mauro

Which brand have you been looking at?

 

[rweigel]

I was in a comparable situation in Germany, I just waited patiently for the right pieces to appear on ebay. It took literally years. And yes, one gets sidetracked by building equipment like sharpening templates, supports for different sharpening stones, a power hone, a first turntable, another turntable and so on.

Our local GRS sellers in Germany charge much higher prices than in the US.

A word to the ball vise: Consider carefully if you plan to use a microscope and a turntable to keep you work centered. In that case, you could use a much simpler ball vise without rotating crown.

Cheers

Ralf

 

[oniemarc]

I was in a comparable situation in Germany, I just waited patiently for the right pieces to appear on ebay. It took literally years. And yes, one gets sidetracked by building equipment like sharpening templates, supports for different sharpening stones, a power hone, a first turntable, another turntable and so on.

Our local GRS sellers in Germany charge much higher prices than in the US.

A word to the ball vise: Consider carefully if you plan to use a microscope and a turntable to keep you work centered. In that case, you could use a much simpler ball vise without rotating crown.

Cheers

Ralf

Mine is a cheap one locally bought. It's always locked since I am using a turntable.
I would however like a new one...hahaha. Either the PC vise by Lindsay...or the 5" RinGenie low profile. We wil see what I end up with...

 

[Pešekan]

Thank you for your answers.
I guess i haven't been specific enough. Since I haven't been in contact with anything similar so far (electric rotary tools are nowhere similar to this technique, I would first like to order some basic equipment.



What I have in mind are:
- some cut head handles

Cut Head Graver Handle

Wood handle for use with any of our hand-held engravers.1 7/16" overall length with a 1" diameter head. Head is cut to allow lower graver angles during engraving.

contenti.com

- basic set of HSS gravers of different shapes and sizes (square, flat, round, point)
I guess, for using with these wooden handles, it is the same if i get these "flat" or "rod" shaped gravers? (I don't know the correct terminology, sorry

HSS Gravers - Gravers - Engraving & Stone Setting | Contenti

High Speed Steel gravers strike a good balance between cost and durability. They maintain their hardness better than standard carbon steel gravers but cost less than carbide.

contenti.com

- sharpening ceramics (I plan to try to hand sharpen them. I am aware that the sharpening of the gravers is the most important part here, but for now, I am on a budget and for me it's most important just to get a feel of these tools, since I haven't found anyone near who could show this to me in person)

Norton IB6 Combination Bench Stone

Made of tough aluminum oxide abrasive. Use to sharpen steel tools. Only light oil application is needed for best results. One side is fine grit, the other is medium. Measures 6" x 2" x 1". Top quality. Norton brand.

contenti.com

- some basic sharpener like this one. I know it is very rudimental, but I have to start from somewhere

Simple Graver Sharpener

Secure your graver in either of the two angled openings and roll it over the sharpening/honing stone of your choice to sharpen the graver. Measures 2 1/8" x 1 1/8"

contenti.com

- i plan to make my own rotational vise, and use it in combination with Thermomorph plastic.

- and some other stuff like jeweler's loupe etc...



This is more or less my first shopping list.
After I get a feel of the tools and see if I have any basic skills for this hobby, I plan to invest step by step in better tools and equipment. Firstly in a sharpening fixture, then a better vise, and then eventually, in a proper engraving tool. Pulsegraver looks amazing but this is far in the future, both financially and experience related.

Anyway, to get back on the subject. Would Contenti webshop be a good starting point for this basic order? Has anybody ordered from them to Europe? Or is Ebay still my best option?

 

[DanM]

Thank you for your answers.
I guess i haven't been specific enough. Since I haven't been in contact with anything similar so far (electric rotary tools are nowhere similar to this technique, I would first like to order some basic equipment.



What I have in mind are:
- some cut head handles

Cut Head Graver Handle

Wood handle for use with any of our hand-held engravers.1 7/16" overall length with a 1" diameter head. Head is cut to allow lower graver angles during engraving.

contenti.com

- basic set of HSS gravers of different shapes and sizes (square, flat, round, point)
I guess, for using with these wooden handles, it is the same if i get these "flat" or "rod" shaped gravers? (I don't know the correct terminology, sorry

HSS Gravers - Gravers - Engraving & Stone Setting | Contenti

High Speed Steel gravers strike a good balance between cost and durability. They maintain their hardness better than standard carbon steel gravers but cost less than carbide.

contenti.com

- sharpening ceramics (I plan to try to hand sharpen them. I am aware that the sharpening of the gravers is the most important part here, but for now, I am on a budget and for me it's most important just to get a feel of these tools, since I haven't found anyone near who could show this to me in person)

Norton IB6 Combination Bench Stone

Made of tough aluminum oxide abrasive. Use to sharpen steel tools. Only light oil application is needed for best results. One side is fine grit, the other is medium. Measures 6" x 2" x 1". Top quality. Norton brand.

contenti.com

- some basic sharpener like this one. I know it is very rudimental, but I have to start from somewhere

Simple Graver Sharpener

Secure your graver in either of the two angled openings and roll it over the sharpening/honing stone of your choice to sharpen the graver. Measures 2 1/8" x 1 1/8"

contenti.com

- i plan to make my own rotational vise, and use it in combination with Thermomorph plastic.

- and some other stuff like jeweler's loupe etc...



This is more or less my first shopping list.
After I get a feel of the tools and see if I have any basic skills for this hobby, I plan to invest step by step in better tools and equipment. Firstly in a sharpening fixture, then a better vise, and then eventually, in a proper engraving tool. Pulsegraver looks amazing but this is far in the future, both financially and experience related.

Anyway, to get back on the subject. Would Contenti webshop be a good starting point for this basic order? Has anybody ordered from them to Europe? Or is Ebay still my best option?

Hand sharpening gravers...

 

[Pešekan]

Hand sharpening gravers...

Yeah, I have seen this. This video Sam made will be my cornerstone for sharpening in the beginning. That "simple graver sharpener" is just something to help me out. Even if it's total rubbish, it's really cheap so it's not much of a waste.

 

[rweigel]

Correct and consistent graver sharpening is the key to self learning success, I would say. Especially if you’ve got no teacher to show you the ropes, as it is in my case.

I started out with the same simple graver sharpener You showed us. I set the angle with an angle gauge. It works for the front face, and never did for the V angles of the graver. From time to time I ground a graver that worked for me, but it was not repeatable.

So I studied S. Lindsays sharpening template system and designed likewise templates with my CAD system. I built them from glass fibre reinforced Epoxy plates and brass. They work well with sharpening stones that are flat and levelled to the correct height. Graver geometries got much more repeatable, faces that are supposed to be flat became almost flat.

After almost four years of waiting I got a second hand GRS Dual Angle fixture and built myself a minihone. A big jump in the quality of the cutting edges. Since the grinding takes place only in one direction and with much less pressure I get now really flat, controllable faces. I could even grind finely controlled radiused heels on flat gravers.

The dilemma is, as I see it, that as a beginner you need very stable and repeatable graver geometries, that are NOT achieveable with the “simple graver sharpener” without a lot of experience. Much later, with a lot of practise, you’ll be able to adapt to a different graver geometrie without slipping across you work or digging in far too deep. I would therefore suggest to invest in a sharpening system that allows you to grind your gravers to known, repeatable angles.

Cheers,

Ralf

 

[x9abm]

cousinsuk.com stock engraving tools and ship international.

The bench stone is not best for sharpening. Thin diamond discs 150mm diameter can be used much more effectively even without a power hone. Just put them on a thick flat sheet of glass. Get what you can afford, grits 120, 240, 400, 800, 1200 are useful, aliexpress does them for reasonable money, or ebay. You can also, if you are very careful, use lapping film or top quality sandpaper on the glass for the final fine grit finish on hss tools, look at www.fine-tools.com, but their international post is very expensive.

A cheap honing guide or templates made of 4mm perspex or lexan will get you started with repeatable geometry. To get the heel angles just put a spacer under the guide or template and it will slide around on the glass quite happily. To grind the side and top tapers raise the disc on a wood block. Or if you value precision an open book and remember the page number!

Ball vice ali or ebay.

Going back to the question on work positioning under a microscope - a regular ball vice is fine. No turntable needed if you make up a slide/rotate fixture to clamp in the ball vice. I use a plywood one to my design made up from scrap. I will make it up in steel one day..... pic attached.

Good luck!

 

[Pešekan]

Thank you for your comment. I am frequently checking out ebay for any second hand equipment, mainly a dual angle sharpening fixture.

Regarding the Europe based shops, I have found some... Has anyone had any experience with them?

Davtools | Tools & Supplies for the Jewelry Trade

Since 1961, we have been dedicated to serving the jewellery industry, committed to providing a superior range of tools and instruments at the most competitive prices. We invite you to explore our online store and encourage you to reach out with your specific requirements.

www.davtools.be

Artsupport Shop supplier for goldsmithing and watchmaking equipment

Quality - Tradition - Innovation - Everything for Jewellers & Watchmakers. supplies everything a goldsmith might need: pliers, scissors or shears, saw frames and blades, drills and burs, files and hammers, polish and wax. Formlabs Switzerland. GRS Switzerland

www.artsupport.ch

 

[Pešekan]

Also, i know these replica pneumatic tools aren't as good as the real deal. But also they are several times cheaper than the original GRS and similar equipment, and that means a lot to me because i'm on a limited budget. A lot of this US based equipment is simply too expensive for my Croatian paychecks

So, has anyone tried and compared these replica machines to the real deal, and can tell me what are the main differences? Except that treir resale value is close to non existent

I am talking about something like this:

197.2US $ 32% OFF|Graver Tool Max Jewelry Pneumatic Impact Engraving Machine With 2 Handpieces Jewelry Graving Machine Hand Stone Setting - Jewelry Tools & Equipments - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

 

[Sinterklaas]

Don't buy the knockoff/fakes. They have troubles that will ruin the fun.
Better to start handpush engraving. And save your money. Or make your own pneumatic graver. https://www.youtube.com/user/ralex397/videos


As for buying tools. There must be a jewelry supply company in Croatia. You have jewelers in your country and they buy there tools from somewhere. Ask them or keep searching. It doesn't make financial sense to buy from USA. You will have a lower product price. But with shipping cost and customs duty/fee and taxes you often and up at a higher price than if you brought local.

There are loads of jewelry supply companies in each country. Here in the Netherlands which is not a big country we have atleast 4 if I am not mistaken. So keep looking, there must be some in Croatia or neighboring countries.

 

[x9abm]

Also, i know these replica pneumatic tools aren't as good as the real deal. But also they are several times cheaper than the original GRS and similar equipment, and that means a lot to me because i'm on a limited budget. A lot of this US based equipment is simply too expensive for my Croatian paychecks

So, has anyone tried and compared these replica machines to the real deal, and can tell me what are the main differences? Except that treir resale value is close to non existent

I am talking about something like this:

197.2US $ 32% OFF|Graver Tool Max Jewelry Pneumatic Impact Engraving Machine With 2 Handpieces Jewelry Graving Machine Hand Stone Setting - Jewelry Tools & Equipments - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

I have never used GRS or Lindsay, too expensive, so I don't know the differences. I bought one of these recently:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4001364153581.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.586b6aa8eJnvq7&browser_id=77979a4a54bb410386b16d8f5e1a0b1b&aff_trace_key=dc7b74f2cb93473c91f5b2a0c0534e52-1645214097062-07347-UneMJZVf&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=kuewgmf21qqcavjf17fb6909b031e4caba3bc40559&gclid=

And it makes life much easier - especially in steel. It seems to be controllable and effective but I probably wouldn't engrave the inside of a ring using it. Its a game changer for stippling, sculpting, stone setting and moving metal around. The quick change graver holders are not the GRS 6.3mm, they are 4.5mm so I will probably make up a new handpiece to take my GRS QC's.

The one in your link has the palm control. Foot pedal works fine for me and then you can easily hand push when needed (more difficult with palm control I think).

 

[Pešekan]

I have never used GRS or Lindsay, too expensive, so I don't know the differences. I bought one of these recently:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4001364153581.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.586b6aa8eJnvq7&browser_id=77979a4a54bb410386b16d8f5e1a0b1b&aff_trace_key=dc7b74f2cb93473c91f5b2a0c0534e52-1645214097062-07347-UneMJZVf&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=kuewgmf21qqcavjf17fb6909b031e4caba3bc40559&gclid=

And it makes life much easier - especially in steel. It seems to be controllable and effective but I probably wouldn't engrave the inside of a ring using it. Its a game changer for stippling, sculpting, stone setting and moving metal around. The quick change graver holders are not the GRS 6.3mm, they are 4.5mm so I will probably make up a new handpiece to take my GRS QC's.

The one in your link has the palm control. Foot pedal works fine for me and then you can easily hand push when needed (more difficult with palm control I think).

Interesting... Didn't stumble upon this one yet. This would be the cheap version of Pulsegraver i presume?
It's a bit more expensive, but i don't have to get a compressor which means a lot because i'm doing my work in an apartment.

So all in all, you are satisfied with it? Could you post some of your work you made with it if it's not a problem?
Or send it in a private conversation... Thanks!

 

[rweigel]

Asian pneumatic engraving machines: Your mileage may vary. I bought the asian version of a classic GRS machine before I knew about the engravers’s café. So you may forgive me this purchase. I had a new rotary valve body made from Iglidur G as the old one was leaking like hell, replaced the speed regulator’s potentiometer, the air pressure regulator and rebuild the pedal with my own unique mechanic. I still use it, but without my acces to a mechanical workshop and knowledge about electronics repairs I would have chucked it in the bin.

Cheers

Ralf

 

[Pešekan]

I have never used GRS or Lindsay, too expensive, so I don't know the differences. I bought one of these recently:
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4001364153581.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.586b6aa8eJnvq7&browser_id=77979a4a54bb410386b16d8f5e1a0b1b&aff_trace_key=dc7b74f2cb93473c91f5b2a0c0534e52-1645214097062-07347-UneMJZVf&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=kuewgmf21qqcavjf17fb6909b031e4caba3bc40559&gclid=

And it makes life much easier - especially in steel. It seems to be controllable and effective but I probably wouldn't engrave the inside of a ring using it. Its a game changer for stippling, sculpting, stone setting and moving metal around. The quick change graver holders are not the GRS 6.3mm, they are 4.5mm so I will probably make up a new handpiece to take my GRS QC's.

The one in your link has the palm control. Foot pedal works fine for me and then you can easily hand push when needed (more difficult with palm control I think).

Also, one more question... Do you have the version with the micromotor?

If you do, could you please weigh the micromotor tool please. Because I use Dremel for glass engravings, and this could be a good 2in1 option if this tool is significantly lighter than the Dremel.

Also, up to how much rpm does it spin?

 

[x9abm]

Interesting... Didn't stumble upon this one yet. This would be the cheap version of Pulsegraver i presume?
It's a bit more expensive, but i don't have to get a compressor which means a lot because i'm doing my work in an apartment.

So all in all, you are satisfied with it? Could you post some of your work you made with it if it's not a problem?
Or send it in a private conversation... Thanks!

Pulsegraver is not pneumatic as far as I know. This is a pneumatic 'suck and blow' system. I presume it pushes the air back and forward. I needed a no-compressor system too.

I have had it for a week or so and don't have anything but a half destroyed practice plate so far. Also I am a hobbyist not a pro so whilst I think it is great, a pro buying for business might have different standards and expectations.

On your micromotor question - no I didn't go for that. I have an old pendant drill which is ok for the time being.

 

[oniemarc]

Interesting... Didn't stumble upon this one yet. This would be the cheap version of Pulsegraver i presume?
It's a bit more expensive, but i don't have to get a compressor which means a lot because i'm doing my work in an apartment.

So all in all, you are satisfied with it? Could you post some of your work you made with it if it's not a problem?
Or send it in a private conversation... Thanks!

It's a clone of the Jura Artgraver...