Am I too slow?

[teroon]

Hi,
I'm wondering am I too slow in my engraving.
I have recently engraved this zippo, total time of engraving around 9-10 hours.
Cutting of the outline and leafs took me about 1-2 hours. Background removal and stippling took a lot - 6 hours. Shading around 2 hours.

I have watched and read that a skilled engraver takes around 100$ per hour. Even if I would count 20$ per hour still I can not believe to give a price tag of about 200 USD for such an engraving. So my question is - am I too slow in my engraving? Background takes me a lot of time, perhaps too long?

For me this is more of a hobby with perhaps a bit of $ on the side in the future, but somehow I'm worried that it still takes to long.

I would be most gratefull for any word on the subject from other engravers.
Thank you.

 

[Leonardo]

I think that the engraving will takes what it takes until you feel yourself satisfied with the quality of your work.
The most important thing, in my opinion, is in what canvas you are investing your time and effort.
It is not the same working in a gold piece or in a brass piece. Also the brand of the object is important because all of these is about the perceived value of the final object.
If and engraver spend 1000 or 1500 hours engraving and inlaying a Purdey or a H&H shotgun that will double the value of the gun, the perceived value will be very high so a rich person will be glad of spending hundred thousand dollars for that unique work of art.
In the same way, if you make a beautiful table in oak will be not the same that that making it in pine. It must be a balance between the value of the materials/object and the amount of work you are punting on it.
By the way, your Zippo looks great!

 

[teroon]

Thank you Leonardo for that insight. I think what I'm more trying to figure out is if I'm slow or "normal" with the speed of the engraving at this point.

 

[Leonardo]

My pleasure!
You will be faster with the practice but quality engraving is a slow process.
Will wait until some of the Masters here chime in.

 

[mtlctr]

Often wondered about this subject. Difficult to get a straight answer.
cutting brass or copper takes the same time as silver or gold / platinum or whatever . Sooo…the cost is in the cutting time. Is the engraving valued or the metal object.?
a nicely engraved Uberti single action will certainly not fetch what Colt Saa engraved with same pattern would.
the zippo is very nice. Some will like it, others a Bic.

 

[SamW]

The higher the quality of execution the more time it takes. Your time seems OK to me.

PS...it shows careful layout and quality execution.

 

[DaveAtWeirs]

In the same way, if you make a beautiful table in oak will be not the same that that making it in pine. It must be a balance between the value of the materials/object and the amount of work you are punting on it.

Seconding this. People will happily pay the extra cost if the original item is already worth quite a bit. This is why you see more engraved Rolexes and Omegas than you see Seikos.
In work they charge about 3x the amount for my engraving if its a gold/platinum Rolex vs a silver bangle. The customers don't even blink if its 250-500 for the engraving on a rolex but if someone's buying a silver bangle for 60 quid and the engraving is coming to 30 they start to question if the engraving is worth that much.

Unfortunately 100 per hour is for top tier and well known engravers working on expensive guns doing gold inlay and the like, for pricing of my own stuff I tend to aim for the 30-40-ish an hour mark, then add the cost of the piece, materials and time spent sharpening etc. and round it up to the nearest 20. You also charge less if it's for the trade cuz the shop has to make money on it too, on average they 1.5x to 2.5x your price to get the retail price, and if it's too high it wont sell so they wont even buy it for stock. 30 an hour is a good bit less than the high-end guys but it sure beats grinding out a living earning less than 15 an hour flipping burgers and cleaning toilets.

When it's not a commissioned or demo/sample piece try avoid stuff like background removal and stippling, they look really really nice but they take waaaay too long to do right and its difficult to justify the cost of it to a customer when, to their eyes, it's just a black background. Beading tools or liner gravers for background are quicker, have a very nice finish, and, even though they're less work, a customer sees them as worth more because there's 'stuff' in there, not just black block

oh and don't worry too much about spending too much time on engravings, speed comes with practice and experience. My first few scrollwork coins took me all day to do, now I bang em out in 15 minutes between jobs to give away as presents to nice clients

 

[Engraver10]

Sometimes I also take a while to complete an engraving, but I'm very anxious to finish it and I've noticed that when I try to work faster, it doesn't work so well.

I believe that this art is to be patient and unhurried to finish. I'm still in my testing period before going to parts.

Your work turned out really good!!!

 

[mtlctr]

Seconding this. People will happily pay the extra cost if the original item is already worth quite a bit. This is why you see more engraved Rolexes and Omegas than you see Seikos.
In work they charge about 3x the amount for my engraving if its a gold/platinum Rolex vs a silver bangle. The customers don't even blink if its 250-500 for the engraving on a rolex but if someone's buying a silver bangle for 60 quid and the engraving is coming to 30 they start to question if the engraving is worth that much.

Unfortunately 100 per hour is for top tier and well known engravers working on expensive guns doing gold inlay and the like, for pricing of my own stuff I tend to aim for the 30-40-ish an hour mark, then add the cost of the piece, materials and time spent sharpening etc. and round it up to the nearest 20. You also charge less if it's for the trade cuz the shop has to make money on it too, on average they 1.5x to 2.5x your price to get the retail price, and if it's too high it wont sell so they wont even buy it for stock. 30 an hour is a good bit less than the high-end guys but it sure beats grinding out a living earning less than 15 an hour flipping burgers and cleaning toilets.

When it's not a commissioned or demo/sample piece try avoid stuff like background removal and stippling, they look really really nice but they take waaaay too long to do right and its difficult to justify the cost of it to a customer when, to their eyes, it's just a black background. Beading tools or liner gravers for background are quicker, have a very nice finish, and, even though they're less work, a customer sees them as worth more because there's 'stuff' in there, not just black block

oh and don't worry too much about spending too much time on engravings, speed comes with practice and experience. My first few scrollwork coins took me all day to do, now I bang em out in 15 minutes between jobs to give away as presents to nice clients

Yep, can either reduce coverage/ treatment or have just about have no chance of selling what customers see as an overpriced item.
I was at a show, a customer walks up and examined a hand made engraved box. He sez, why do you think this is worth $$? Trying to be cordial I explained the time/ skill involved making the box not to mention the script & decorative scrolls. this guy walks away, I forgot to mention he was covered with $1000’s in tattoos.

 

[Engraver10]

Yep, can either reduce coverage/ treatment or have just about have no chance of selling what customers see as an overpriced item.
I was at a show, a customer walks up and examined a hand made engraved box. He sez, why do you think this is worth $$? Trying to be cordial I explained the time/ skill involved making the box not to mention the script & decorative scrolls. this guy walks away, I forgot to mention he was covered with $1000’s in tattoos.

Really, only those who engraver know the art know all the meticulous work of cutting the metal, giving it shapes that are involved in the process and the value it adds. Good example yours.

 

[JJ Roberts]

Take your time if you rush mistakes will cost you time fixing the mistake. J.J.

 

[mtlctr]

An old time gunsmith told me , “ you know you’re a gunsmith when you know how to cover up your mistakes”.

 

[teroon]

Thank you all for answeres. It gave me a lot in terms of general perspective.

 

[gcmeleak]

I think that the engraving will takes what it takes until you feel yourself satisfied with the quality of your work.
The most important thing, in my opinion, is in what canvas you are investing your time and effort.
It is not the same working in a gold piece or in a brass piece. Also the brand of the object is important because all of these is about the perceived value of the final object.
If and engraver spend 1000 or 1500 hours engraving and inlaying a Purdey or a H&H shotgun that will double the value of the gun, the perceived value will be very high so a rich person will be glad of spending hundred thousand dollars for that unique work of art.
In the same way, if you make a beautiful table in oak will be not the same that that making it in pine. It must be a balance between the value of the materials/object and the amount of work you are punting on it.
By the way, your Zippo looks great!

Fantastic answer, you have touched each base of this question and supported them with the highest vaule item that any engraver should strive to obtain.

 

[gcmeleak]

Hi,
I'm wondering am I too slow in my engraving.
I have recently engraved this zippo, total time of engraving around 9-10 hours.
Cutting of the outline and leafs took me about 1-2 hours. Background removal and stippling took a lot - 6 hours. Shading around 2 hours.

I have watched and read that a skilled engraver takes around 100$ per hour. Even if I would count 20$ per hour still I can not believe to give a price tag of about 200 USD for such an engraving. So my question is - am I too slow in my engraving? Background takes me a lot of time, perhaps too long?

For me this is more of a hobby with perhaps a bit of $ on the side in the future, but somehow I'm worried that it still takes to long.

I would be most gratefull for any word on the subject from other engravers.
Thank you.
View attachment 51703

You have produced a wonderful piece of art. And as a starving artist you should command a price that reflects your efforts.