art transfer

[DARNEW]

Just getting started. How can you transfer a drawing to the metal you would like to cut?

 

[Frank P]

Hello and wellcome!!! You just look around and will find here everything you need and more, there s a cafe members tips and tricks list somewhere, ideal for that.. and if you can draw it, you can engrave it..the best way, but not always the easiest, is to draw your subject direct on the metal and start chipping!!
Good luck and don t hesitate to post pics, there s plenty of big names here to guide you into the fine art!!!

 

[monk]

when i first started, i mean at the very beginning:: i made sure the metal was very clean. created my drawing exacty to the size and shape required on the piece onto a piece of paper. cut a piece of carbon transfer paper and tape this onto your piece. carefully trace over your lines with a ballpoint pen. the carbon paper will leave very easy to see dark lines for you to cut. a fine spritz of pastel fixative will make sure your lines wont rub off.

 

[John B.]

Welcome Darnew.
Go to the bottom right of any page on the Cafe forum.
Click on the arrow next to the little box in blue that says "Hand Engraving Forum"
Click on "Tips from Cafe Members" on the drop down menu.
You should find what you need there or just do a general search for "transfers."
Hope this helps, best of luck with your engraving adventure.
John B.

 

[Thierry Duguet]

Hello,

Actually the easiest way is to use a computer.
1) Scan your drawing
2) Edit it
3) Rub some china white on the location where you want to engrave the pattern
4) Reverse the image
5) Print it on some tracing paper
6) Use a dry point to rub the negative side of the tracing paper on the location. Some of the printing ink will transfer on your white background.
7) Follow the line.

Good luck

 

[Marcus Hunt]

OR ....... like Frank says, draw it directly on to the piece and scribe through.

 

[Thierry Duguet]

OR ....... like Frank says, draw it directly on to the piece and scribe through.

Sure, that is the way I do it most of the time but it can be faster to use the computer, you draw once and re-use the same drawing several time, you can reverse it, enlarge or reduce it in function of your need. Time is money I try to save time when ever I can.

 

[David Jacobson]

layout

A simple way to get srarted is to sand the metal with 400 grit sandpaper, then dab it with some clay to nock down the shine and leave a even film on the metal, take a hard lead pincel and under magnitafation draw your design. you can easly erase mistakes with a pointed eraser. once you have what you want, take a worn out ball point pen and go over the design. Use both hands to guide the pen from wandering off course. the scribed lines frim the ball point pen can be easley sanded away when finished.

Dave Jacobson

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Sure, that is the way I do it most of the time but it can be faster to use the computer, you draw once and re-use the same drawing several time, you can reverse it, enlarge or reduce it in function of your need. Time is money I try to save time when ever I can.

This may work if you are repeating the same pattern time after time after time and if you are working on identical (dare I say machine made) pieces of work. If you tried this method on bespoke guns and rifles you may come unstuck in that anything that is handmade is rarely the same. Even 'pairs' of guns differ and with the computer method you'd have to adjust one scroll, then another, then another to make it fit correctly by which time you'd lose your 'computer is faster' advantage. Plus I fail to see that if you are working on individual (not production) pieces, how drawing it out first, then resizing it out on the computer, then printing it out, then applying transfer solution or tracing it down is quicker in the long run??? Or maybe I'm seriously missing something?

What I'm about to say may be a bit controvercial and open up the debate. As far as I'm concerned (apart from birds, animals, portraits, etc where you may have a point), drawing your scrolls directly onto the peice has got to be by far the faster method for the experienced engraver and, in my opinion, if the novice becomes reliant on the computer method instead of learning to draw directly, they will always be reliant on the computer and never get faster by direct drawing. The beauty of hand engraving is that it can be done with the absolute minimum of tools and intervention of technology.

I'd love Ron's views on this.

 

[pilkguns]

As far as I'm concerned (apart from birds, animals, portraits, etc where you may have a point), drawing your scrolls directly onto the peice has got to be by far the faster method for the experienced engraver and, in my opinion, if the novice becomes reliant on the computer method instead of learning to draw directly, they will always be reliant on the computer and never get faster by direct drawing.

I absolutely totally agree Marcus. Beyond that, I don't think you can properly design scrolls to properly fit the piece on the computer. On flat perpendicular shaped practicte plates, sure. But beginners who learn that will be lost when faced with a multifaceted and irregularly shaped and sized surface such as a gun or knife. There are just too many nuances that have to be factored in, that software cannot account for.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Computors are really good for certain things but.when laying out a scroll design I almost always just freehand it onto the metal. I never seems to fail that the dimensions in my sketching template are always a hair different and one side of the gun does not match the other. Don't forget also that thigs always look different on the actual metal as opposed to paper. So I lay out my main lines first.making sure they fit and then I add my details. I often cut my main lines and the redraw the leafy details to fit what I cut. It's faster and easier than it sounds. I usually do this with modeling clay and dust it with talc to see what I'm drawing.

 

[FANCYGUN]

I might also add that I almost always have a sketch of what I am trying to do in front of me as I do this freehand stuff. I usually don't make it up as I go along whith the main focal areas of my design

 

[Doc Mark]

Guys, you bring up excellant points. But, although I can draw fairly well on paper, I can't do it as smoothly and accurately on the metal. I've tried the techniques you mention, but they tend to smear when I begin to cut. When I have tried to lightly score over the directly drawn lines, my scriber runs all over the smooth surface and looks like a printout of a California earthquake. Although I'm sold on "Magic Transfer Solution", I understand how the trip from computer print to curved surface is never a perfect transition, but after the transfer, adjustments can be made while cutting. And the transfered designs don't seem to smear under my sweaty paws. I would rather like to draw directly but I must overcome these problems. Any comments?

Mark

 

[FANCYGUN]

Doc
Any time you draw curved lines as in scrolls.do not try to do it in one long smooth line...instead draw your design with short overlapping strokes. This way you can correct things as you go along and see them. This is also why I draw them and cut them on the metal in stages.

 

[fegarex]

Marty answered this before I finished my reply but I agree. Use short strokes with a scribe. Have a point but not too sharp so it will make a line but not "drag" too much on the metal. If you attempt to draw a long curved line it will look like you say. The other advantage of this is the lines are thinner. The problem with any type of transfer is the lines are usually too thick to follow correctly.

 

[Thierry Duguet]

apart from birds, animals, portraits, etc where you may have a point

I should have been more explicit, I use computer only for animals, they are actually the only things I draw with some details. It did not occur to me to try to transfer complete project from paper to the actual piece to be engrave, as you say it would just be too unpractical. Sorry for the confusion.
For scroll work I do as David Jacobson, I will add that I actually draw only the outline of the scrolls with very few details unless the pattern I am planning to do is very complicate.

 

[Ron Smith]

Everybody: My view on this matter is, do what ever it takes to get it done quickly, with the best quality. Modern economic pressures require this of you, but never sacrifice quality for speed. Of course time is money, as it is hand labor. There are times when drawing is much much faster. There are times when the computer is effective, but again you have to adjust your approach to be the most effecient in time. I can do a lettering job rather quickly compared to the modern processes, but I know my letter structures by heart, and I don't always need to draw the whole letter. Likewise, scrolls and subjects will be done much faster if you know your subjects, and you can draw what you see, know structural laws, proceedures, animal anatomy, etc. Like Marcus said, the experienced engraver is much faster than any machine, unless you are mass producing something. That is when the machine excells. One of a kind pieces are creative, exploritory efforts and for speed, experience overcomes the sluggishness of the ameteur. You cannot beat the knowledge that experience will give you and speed will be the result. There are some things that you can speed up, and there are some things you can't. You will benifit greatly by learning structure and proceedures. These are the foundational elements of the engraving artist. Draw at least as much as you cut and more if you have time. study light and shadow........... Did someone say this was easy?..... It will be one of the hardest things that you will ever do in your life, trying to juggle your art progression with economic requirements. It requires a commitment you will only understand when you have been engraving for forty years, every day of your life. When you have reached the peak of your potential under these circumstances, then you might understand, but I have not done that myself, and that is what keeps me going. That is what drives us all. If you are willing to settle for mediocraties, you will fit right in with the rest of the world. If you wish to be a magnificent engraver, you are special, and don't you ever forget it, because you will have payed the price of a life for it.........What Marcus and Scott and others are saying is, you are competing with experienced engravers who know what they are doing, have paid their dues, so to speak, and there is no other faster way except for the pneumatic tools and the sharpening aids. These two things have cut the learning curve down tremendously for the beginner, but are extremely benificial and have earned a place in the art. I think also, the computer will find a nitch, but in the long run will probably slow you down. I find that a lot of things that modern engravers are using couldn't compete with the speed of the experienced engraver. Never the less, the machine verses hand methods will find their way into the engraving world more for novilty than because of need for those trying to do this other than on an extra interest or hobby basis, or even because they are another interest or hobby. Prosperity tends to open the door to frivilous thought or proceedures that survival will not allow, if you know what I mean. Necessity playes a certain roll here and at survival level we cannot afford to make frivilous choices. But I am not sure that engraving for a living is very practical now days, because of those economic pressures based on mass production, as much as it is easier to make money at it now than in my day.....However, We are educating the culture into the finer things in life, and we are teaching them about passion, so whatever it takes to do it effeciently with quality, I would say that would be exceptable in my book, particularly if you are trying to make a living at it, and that is my two cents and unbiased opinion on the subject. ..................Forward!
Ron S
and not a very quick reply...........

 

[Andrew Biggs]

OK, I'm going to swim against the tide a bit here

I like the computer transfer method, especially for flatter areas on a gun. Yes it can be slower but it can also be very accurate and highly detailed. You can also get very thin lines that are easy to follow. On more complex shapes like convex fences on a shotgun it gets a lot harder but do-able. Certainley there are areas and shapes that drawing directley onto the metal is more advantageous.

I'm working on a stirling silver signet ring at the moment that I did a layout on paper first then drew it directly onto the metal and it wasn't as hard as it was a year ago. (I'll post a seperate thread on that when it's finished in a few nights) So it is something I am going to practice a lot more of in the future.

Now in saying all that........I'm a hobby engraver that dosn't have to make a living at it and therefore speed is not something I have to worry about. I can certainley understand as a working engraver speed is a very important factor.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[SamW]

I've tried twice now to post to this thread but it would't post....to bad, it was sage advise!

OK, I just typed another long version and again was told I didn't have the authority to perform the action. What the heck type of equipment is this??????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Awww come on Sam

Try again, I'd love to hear it!!!

Cheers
Andrew