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allan621

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This is long and my opinion probably not an accurate history, more of a general impression of the last 45 years.

Hand engraving is not dying out by a long shot but it has shifted over to the firearm and knife side of the business. And the reason is training. Before and after WW2 there were just a lot of hand engraving involved in the jewelry trades.

Men, and it was basically all men, specialized in certain types of engraving: die engravers, flatware engravers, ring carvers, family coats of arms engravers and the general engrave anything guys like me who I call meatball engravers, based on the Italian meatball recipe that included a lot of everything to make one meatball.

All these men learned from being employed as a beginner in a place that needed engravers; getting better with time being taught by more experienced engravers where they worked, or by family or someone who knew an engraver who was willing to teach a beginner. And then there were a lot of jewelry store owners who did there own engraving because they were either dead cheap or they needed work done quickly to make a sale and didn't have time to ship it.

And after WW2 there were engraving schools opened to take advantage of the GI Bills for returning servicemen. Quite a few engravers I knew when I started learned from there. But not all. And that's when the training stopped. A lot of engravers were very protective of their craft and didn't like to tell anyone, even other engravers how they worked. Just didn't. That was because there was a lot of competition and engravers were an expendable group. You give me a problem and I'll just use another engraver and see if I can get it done cheaper.

When I started engraving in the big city with a jewelry district we had to work hard to get a raise in our prices. I mean like a nickel a letter extra might mean the store owner would go find another engraver. Then a big change came along. Not so much computerized engraving, which was a big deal, but engravers just started plain dying. The whole generation of jewelry engravers after the war started to hit the skids in the 70's and 80s. And prices rose slowly because most stores had nowhere to go. This is before the internet, you tube and dvds. There were a few jewelry lettering VHS tapes but a lot of them were not really helpful. SO with nowhere to learn jewelry engraving just started to recede.

There have always been firearm engravers. Doing beautiful work. Then came GRS and the training center. If you wanted to engrave and you were drawn to scroll work ( which compared to normal jewelry lettering engraving was beautiful and inventive) you had a place to learn. And the explosion of ideas that GRS started made engraving easier, like the sharpening systems and the beautiful engraving blocks which were head and shoulders above what was available. I went out to Kansas to GRS before the training center was built. We learned in a rented classroom and Sam Alfano was the teacher. I sat there thinking its kind of like being in a beginners class taught by Michelangelo. That doesn't happen on the lettering side.

And that's why you have trouble finding someone close to teach you. I'm in the process of training my 5th apprentice. Then I'm done. But if I can help you drop me a private post.

Allan
 
papart1

papart1

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Allen......how long is the cub's school total please?
 
A

allan621

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papart

Not sure what you're asking but if its how much do I charge , the answer is nothing. The men who taught me never charged me so I never charge anyone to learn. The time it takes for me to train has radically decreased over the years. It used to take a great deal of time to learn how to use the gravers before the air powered tools came along. And it took a great deal of time to learn to construct lettering so it looks right. With the current apprentice being fluent in Adobe and using the dvd on Sam's website where you can use Adobe to created inscriptions he should be ready by Christmas. Just takes a lot of practice to get it right.

Allan
 
ByrnBucks

ByrnBucks

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Good evening Sebastian, Scott Pilkington teaches in mount eagle TN about 3 hours north of you, I never did take a class but he hosted a gathering of gifted gentlemen and I was lucky enough to meet and speak with Ron Smith. Scott pops up in the cafe from time to time, Very nice guy and he’s got some YouTube videos as well. good luck and have a great day. BB
 
Roger Bleile

Roger Bleile

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allan621 said:
This is long and my opinion probably not an accurate history, more of a general impression of the last 45 years.

Hand engraving is not dying out by a long shot but it has shifted over to the firearm and knife side of the business. And the reason is training. Before and after WW2 there were just a lot of hand engraving involved in the jewelry trades.

Men, and it was basically all men, specialized in certain types of engraving: die engravers, flatware engravers, ring carvers, family coats of arms engravers and the general engrave anything guys like me who I call meatball engravers, based on the Italian meatball recipe that included a lot of everything to make one meatball.

All these men learned from being employed as a beginner in a place that needed engravers; getting better with time being taught by more experienced engravers where they worked, or by family or someone who knew an engraver who was willing to teach a beginner. And then there were a lot of jewelry store owners who did there own engraving because they were either dead cheap or they needed work done quickly to make a sale and didn't have time to ship it.

And after WW2 there were engraving schools opened to take advantage of the GI Bills for returning servicemen. Quite a few engravers I knew when I started learned from there. But not all. And that's when the training stopped. A lot of engravers were very protective of their craft and didn't like to tell anyone, even other engravers how they worked. Just didn't. That was because there was a lot of competition and engravers were an expendable group. You give me a problem and I'll just use another engraver and see if I can get it done cheaper.

When I started engraving in the big city with a jewelry district we had to work hard to get a raise in our prices. I mean like a nickel a letter extra might mean the store owner would go find another engraver. Then a big change came along. Not so much computerized engraving, which was a big deal, but engravers just started plain dying. The whole generation of jewelry engravers after the war started to hit the skids in the 70's and 80s. And prices rose slowly because most stores had nowhere to go. This is before the internet, you tube and dvds. There were a few jewelry lettering VHS tapes but a lot of them were not really helpful. SO with nowhere to learn jewelry engraving just started to recede.

There have always been firearm engravers. Doing beautiful work. Then came GRS and the training center. If you wanted to engrave and you were drawn to scroll work ( which compared to normal jewelry lettering engraving was beautiful and inventive) you had a place to learn. And the explosion of ideas that GRS started made engraving easier, like the sharpening systems and the beautiful engraving blocks which were head and shoulders above what was available. I went out to Kansas to GRS before the training center was built. We learned in a rented classroom and Sam Alfano was the teacher. I sat there thinking its kind of like being in a beginners class taught by Michelangelo. That doesn't happen on the lettering side.

And that's why you have trouble finding someone close to teach you. I'm in the process of training my 5th apprentice. Then I'm done. But if I can help you drop me a private post.

Allan
Click to expand...
Allan,
A very good assessment of the situation. I would add one thing as it applies to the Jewelry/lettering trade for engravers. Not long after WWII, the New Hermes Engravograph, diamond drag engraving machine began to proliferate in the USA. As the number of hand engravers in the jewelry trade diminished, the engravers were replaced by the machines. It was only gun engravers that were not affected by this shift.
 
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allan621

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Messages
374
Roger

Forgot all about the New Hermes setup, thanks for the reminder. I used to use the large New Hermes to make a few dollars working in a trophy shop while i was apprenticing. They were pretty well made and easy to use but with one large drawback. The type came in open trays and the shop I worked in had about 6 different fonts stacked up on a shelf on the side of the machine. Every so often I would elbow the fonts onto the floor. And for the next hour it was getting the type back in the correct trays.

Allan
 
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John B.

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Roger Bleile said:
Allan,
A very good assessment of the situation. I would add one thing as it applies to the Jewelry/lettering trade for engravers. Not long after WWII, the New Hermes Engravograph, diamond drag engraving machine began to proliferate in the USA. As the number of hand engravers in the jewelry trade diminished, the engravers were replaced by the machines. It was only gun engravers that were not affected by this shift.
Click to expand...
Hello Roger.
I think that we can add that the National Rifle Association and several colleges combined to teach engraving, mostly gun and knife, in the 1970's.
That got the instruction ball rolling and introduced a lot of new talent to the industry
As you know, Neil Hartliep, his wife and their son Glen were some of the earliest teaching staff in that program.
These were mostly one and two week summer vacation time classes.
This timing made classes available to many people who were still in full time employment.
Several years later, Don Glasser of GRS flew his own airplane down to visit the class that I was teaching at Lassen College, Susanville, CA.
He liked what he saw and shortly thereafter GRS opened their own instruction facility in Kansas.
The NRA deserves a lot of credit for the idea and the expansion of the engraving industry that we now enjoy.
NRA made the cost of quality instruction, with tools and a place to stay, affordable for most people.
 
Last edited:
Sebastian duran

Sebastian duran

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2021
Messages
39
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Thank you so much Allan and all the members that chimed into this conversation. I will be dropping you a message Allan with some questions. I will also look check out the link from pilkguns.
I mainly wanted to start this thread becouse as a beginner I want to make sure I’m on the right path. I started engraving letters and a learning from Sams DVDs but they are for right hands and since I’m a lefty. It left me sorta confused. I have a background in media arts and animation which means that im efficient in sculpting, 3D printing and using vector programs such as Corel. When I found myself learning how to engrave. It felt like all of those discipline’s Lended a helping hand and I couldn’t stop wanting to sit down and Learn more about this beautiful craft. But i need direction since some say do Letters but I see more scroll work being done. I work as a Jewler so ive been seeing That most of the companies have a laser or a machine engraver which leaves, once again, confused what way to go. I was hoping to find someone close to me since this craft is not cheap and I’ve spend a lot of money in tools already.
finally, I love reading about the history and you guys experience. Thank you sharing
 
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