Question: Background tread, stipples or cuts

[Mario Sarto]

About “gilding” do you mean like electro plating with Rhodium? I agree it looks dirty when not treated. But if yellow gilding would help on yellow gold, I learned something new.

I don't know the right word in English, but electroplating sounds good.
The reason of looking different or better say dirty to the rest of the piece is, we use alloys in jewelry and we decuple the surface, when stippling. That means, exceptionally when using low alloys like 14k or even deeper, acids, oxygen, sulfur and so on react with the non-precious or lower precious properties. If we have a polished surface, these reactions takes much longer. Furthermore some forged (stippling is/does forging) material looks darker than not forged - independent from the tool, that is used. Try it with different alloys by milling and not milling and look onto it under diffuse light.
And at last of course, particles from skin, clothing and more goes in - these we can remove easily by using ultrasonic. But an oxidation takes more effort and can be prevent with an "electroplating".

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Andrew, thanks also for participating.
I agreed already and do it again, yes background can be done in much different ways like you describe.
The line technique, it would be stupid to think I invented that, but it was a logical cont'd using wider geometry on highly polished C-Max gravers to have more black. So for me in a way I reinvented it. And to be honest, I never saw someone using it or reading about it in a book.
In Ron’s book it is about lines in two directions, does it create more black? I don’t know for sure but I think not.
And by the time Ron wrote his book, everyone was convinced that wider geometry could not make a single cut more black. But it does!

You are saying I show a poor example using to back up my theory for black. I don’t understand why. As this example shows both a large and tiny space of black background without ink or paint.
Sure there is monetary case about time versus dollar. Does that mean we should paint the background? I remember it is you that learned me to slow down and spend all the time needed to make my work look good. And as I’m not really yet making a living with only engraving, I try to do only the best I can with engravings. No compromises on that. I prefer to start all over till it suits my intentions.

What finish/effect will last the longest for the canvas, I already shared my point of view.
And that is why most of my engravings are done on Titanium. As it is not a soft metal.
And I’m quite sure a lined background like I showed on a Titanium plate, will look good even when the background cuts will have some burnish as they are wear. And if I had done the same in silver, I don’t have to tell it is a soft metal.

The idea about ink or paint is something else I’m thinking about for some time. I know lots of engravings where meant for printing. So I’m thinking to make prints of my flat Titanium engravings, and sure I will when I’m able to do what is called a Bulino scene. And perhaps, when making some prints from a engraving, not cleaning the rests of ink, it would have something extra ‘patina’

arnaud

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Arnaud

Yes, we all reinvent the wheel when we are learning something. And then we tend to do it several times after that as well

I mean no criticism of what you are saying and quite right you should be excited about "discovering" new things and methods. It's a bit like Columbus discovering the Americas when the Indians knew it was there all the time. Abel Tasman is credited with discovering New Zealand which was news to the Maoris

Yes, you will get a deeper black if you make two or more passes over your cuts from different angles. You essentially are layering the cuts. That is standard fare for scene/pictorial work and can also be seen on standard scroll work with cross hatching. Basically it adds more texture and intensity..............depending on what you are doing of course.

I'm not all that convinced about the 110 highly polished graver making blacker cuts because of light reflection. And yes, I've tried it. To my way of thinking that also very much depends on the metal that you are engraving on. With metals that oxidize or tarnish quickly then the effect will be lost rapidly. If the object is handled a lot then the effect will also be lost quickly as dirt and grease build up from the fingers. Then there is also the finish to consider. If the parts are to be heat treated, French grayed, selectively grayed, colour case hardened and so on. All of those things will determine reflection of the final cut. The Italians/Europeans have been using graver geometry that ranges from 80 - 90 degrees or there abouts, for a very long time and it looks black to me...............I'm not saying it doesn't work. I just think that it depends on a whole lot of other factors.

To my way of thinking there is no definitive answer to any of this. Each job/canvas has to be considered differently from the next. Whatis effective on one, may, or may not, work on the other.

But of course it all makes for an interesting conversation with no real conclusions. Only opinions and theories of the day which is always fun.

Cheers
Andrew

PS......I was reading a magazine article the other day about the philosophy of "Being Wrong". There was a wonderful quote by the playwright Moliere................"It infuriates me to be wrong when I know I'm right"...........Just delightful

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

PS......I was reading a magazine article the other day about the philosophy of "Being Wrong". There was a wonderful quote by the playwright Moliere................"It infuriates me to be wrong when I know I'm right"...........Just delightful

Yes that is a nice one Andrew, it will be on my mind for some time.
And about material, you know I do a lot of Titanium engravings, if you have the opportunity, you should give it a try as perhaps that is a important factor as well. Probably my way of doing does not work on all other materials.

arnaud

 

[Marrinan]

One of the punches I frequently use in my backgrounds is a .5 mm dental bur. My dentist gave me a supply sometime back and I have found them to create, when held vertically, and taped they create a star pattern which when viewed from different angles is remarkable consistent and dark, lots of angles to trap light but uniform from every direction.-Fred

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Arnaud, again, the area you've lined looks good to me and it fits nice to the lion head.


I am sorry, definite i got it wrong. Please accept my apology for this! I assure, next time i will be listening three times.

No problem Mario, I know your intentions are always good. And as said before, as English is not our native language, it sometimes is a handicap to really understand and express ourselves.

arnaud

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

I have cut another Titanium Lionhead Studio pendant with the back ground removed with a single point 110° C-Max.
It is even better than my first one, and at the same I needed less time.

I don’t bother much wetter you like the horizontal lined background as much as I do but you should give it a try yourself to find out I think.

However It give a beautiful texture, looks black, but I could also do it grey or making a fade from white to black etc.
I will find out wetter the background is more fragile than a stippled one or not, but In a logical way I think it is even less fragile than a stippled one, just because a stippled one has a more flat even surface than a lined one. So the only scratches that could lighten my background are on the ridge of the cuts, not in the cuts. Scratching the background that much that the ridges would disappear and create a flat surface sure would make the background white or whatever.
But that is impossible.

arnaud