anybody using ball bearings for a magnablock to ride around on ? if so, how difficult is it to continually maintain control of the ball and simultaneously rotate. i'm using a grs turn table, but wondered if it is useful to add a ring on top of the table and load it with ball bearings. i use push graving, gravermeister, airgraver, and sometimes hammer & chisel. i know the balls would have to be removed for h & c.
ball vise on ballbearings ?
- Thread starter monk
- Start date
Monk,
I roll a 20#er on a bed of bearings. I don't know why it wouldn't work for a 40#er. See page two of Tips Archives where my setup has been posted. Been using the setup for about 3 years and don't intend to change.
Roger Henrichs
I roll a 20#er on a bed of bearings. I don't know why it wouldn't work for a 40#er. See page two of Tips Archives where my setup has been posted. Been using the setup for about 3 years and don't intend to change.
Roger Henrichs
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Weldon47
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I lost my bearings and haven't been the same since!
Weldon
Weldon
Christopher Malouf
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Weldon ... I can't stop laughing!! Getting your "bearings" replaced is a day surgery procedure now ... I think?
Hey Monk,
You bring up an interesting topic. I've got a GRS turntable as well. A closed bearing table would be far better and wouldn't require the cleaning that the GRS table needs. I know yer not talking about replacement or modification but I think the possibilities are interesting.
I think I'll take a looksee at Roger's setup on page two.
Chris
Hey Monk,
You bring up an interesting topic. I've got a GRS turntable as well. A closed bearing table would be far better and wouldn't require the cleaning that the GRS table needs. I know yer not talking about replacement or modification but I think the possibilities are interesting.
I think I'll take a looksee at Roger's setup on page two.
Chris
Biorka
Member
I have been using Roger's bearing idea since last July (thanks Roger) It takes some getting used to but it works for me. I at first found it hard to control as it was too sensitive(no resistance) I do not know what Roger meant, or has used for the "buffer" he mentions but I came up with the set-up (attached). I found a steel pan that just fits the felt base on my Vigor Ball vise then glued a thin piece of leather to the bottom of it. This allows the balls to sink a bit into the leather causing just the right resistance for me. The debris mentioned can be a bit of a problem. I am doing mainly gun steel and 400 series stainless (magnetic). I plan on buying some 1/4" 302 Stainless ball bearings from Enco (#240-2448) (non magnetic). When I need to clean them of debris I plan to "suck it up" with a magnet.
Barry
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Barry
I'm glad you like the setup. Yep, metal to metal with the bearings is to quck - no control. I am using a sheet of 45mil EPDM rubber in the bottom of the pan and a piece glued to the steel vise base plate for a buffer to dampen the sensitivity of the ball bearings. Trash from engraving in with the bearings is a problem and will destroy the bearings. (been there) Now you have to make a slip ring at the vise and attach a terry cloth trash cover to it and you'll be in business. I wonder if 1/4" ball bearings are a little big and you'll lose some of the resistance you get from the leather.
Roger
I'm glad you like the setup. Yep, metal to metal with the bearings is to quck - no control. I am using a sheet of 45mil EPDM rubber in the bottom of the pan and a piece glued to the steel vise base plate for a buffer to dampen the sensitivity of the ball bearings. Trash from engraving in with the bearings is a problem and will destroy the bearings. (been there) Now you have to make a slip ring at the vise and attach a terry cloth trash cover to it and you'll be in business. I wonder if 1/4" ball bearings are a little big and you'll lose some of the resistance you get from the leather.
Roger
fegarex
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I don't want to rain on any-one's parade but I would think using the ball bearings AND a turntable would be counter productive. In fact if you are using a microscope the ball bearings wouldn't be the best set up. The point of the turntable is to keep the area you are engraving at the center of the turntable so it stays in focus. All that is needed is to move the vise a bit from time to time. I find that a Teflon base works fine for this even with the heaviest vise. Basically, you want the vise to remain fixed and rotate the turntable to keep things in center. Once you get used to it you can make minor movements "on the fly" but these are just minor moves.
Now, the bearing may work well for engraving without a scope and as we all know, different strokes for different folks. Perhaps it works very well for some people with a scope as well but after messing with this stuff for 25 plus years, it is hard to beat a turntable.
Just my 2 cents here.
Now, the bearing may work well for engraving without a scope and as we all know, different strokes for different folks. Perhaps it works very well for some people with a scope as well but after messing with this stuff for 25 plus years, it is hard to beat a turntable.
Just my 2 cents here.
this is true rex, but i frequently work on large areas and not tiny little scroll thingies. for the smaller stuff, i have no problem.
lost bearings
are you sure it was bearings and not marbles ? there is a big difference, ya know !
are you sure it was bearings and not marbles ? there is a big difference, ya know !
Hey Monk,
I have been using Roger's bearing idea since last July (thanks Roger) It takes some getting used to but it works for me. I at first found it hard to control as it was too sensitive(no resistance) I do not know what Roger meant, or has used for the "buffer" he mentions but I came up with the set-up (attached). I found a steel pan that just fits the felt base on my Vigor Ball vise then glued a thin piece of leather to the bottom of it. This allows the balls to sink a bit into the leather causing just the right resistance for me. The debris mentioned can be a bit of a problem. I am doing mainly gun steel and 400 series stainless (magnetic). I plan on buying some 1/4" 302 Stainless ball bearings from Enco (#240-2448) (non magnetic). When I need to clean them of debris I plan to "suck it up" with a magnet.
Barry
biorka, you can get bearings much cheaper at gander mountain. they are .250 diameter balls made of steel for some type of air gun. not as hard as ball bearings, but if you have sme kind of buffer as roger called it, should not pose a problem. his " buffer" was a piece of cloth over top of the balls. kept curlies out of the bearing area.
chris, i have the grs table, but sometimes want to be able to move the entire ball a good distance. the ball bearings on top of the grs would do it.
Biorka
Member
I think a bit of clarification is in order. I have no turntable and I use a microscope. The buffer refered to is not a barrier to keep fillings out of the bearings but a way to dampen and ad some resistance to the vise base as it rolls on top of the bearings, as Roger says a metal(or hard surface) vise base rolling on the metal bearings is too difficult to control(rolls too easily). The whole idea is to be able to rotate the vise and at the same time move the vise lateraly. Put another way, to be cutting a scroll and at the same time rolling the vise and base on the bearings to keep the cut in the field of view of the scope. I have never tried a turntable or a self centering vise so I really don't know if either would be an improvement for me. I have an open mind and not a lot of experience so perhaps one or the other or both will be something that once tried I won't be able to live without. But for now this works for me and with minimal investment.
Barry
Barry
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fegarex
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Monk,
I guess give it a try and see if it works for you. I find that a chunk of Teflon on the base allows me to slide it easily without having it slide off the turntable and I am engraving large guns with this set up.
Whatever works for each person.
I guess give it a try and see if it works for you. I find that a chunk of Teflon on the base allows me to slide it easily without having it slide off the turntable and I am engraving large guns with this set up.
Whatever works for each person.
Gentlemen,
I will be at the Blade Show this week-end in Atlanta and will have a device created by a friend of mine made from hardware a cabinet maker would use that is capable of moving an engraver's vise without strain. Look for me I will demonstrate how it works, and advise you on where to buy the components.
I will be at the Blade Show this week-end in Atlanta and will have a device created by a friend of mine made from hardware a cabinet maker would use that is capable of moving an engraver's vise without strain. Look for me I will demonstrate how it works, and advise you on where to buy the components.
The device was created to be an alternative to a turn table for centering work under a microscpe. The device does not require much depth and you get a little more leg room beneath the vise. Don't think it would work if placed on a turn table because the turn table would want to turn and control would be lost. Deinately does not work well for hammer and chisel engraving.
Hey Barry,
I see your address is near Sitka, Alaska. I built a waste water treatment plant at the mill in Sitka in the 90'sand I thought you were either in Sitka or not. The end of the road comes pretty quick in Sitka.
Roger
Hey Barry,
I see your address is near Sitka, Alaska. I built a waste water treatment plant at the mill in Sitka in the 90'sand I thought you were either in Sitka or not. The end of the road comes pretty quick in Sitka.
Roger
well i got the balls ! now all i gotta do is install them on top of the grs. if rex is correct, i'll go back to the old way and still , i'll have a lot of balls !. i'm only out 9 bucks, but my grandson has a slingshot ! thanks for all your input, folks. if it doesn't wok, at least my grandkid will be happy !
richard hall
Elite Cafe Member
monk, when i found thoses 5 packs of bb"s the kids had left at home, i filled a pan full of them, no room was left in pan and things rotated nice.
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