Bronze vs. Brass?

[Tira]

Hello! I've been asked to do an historic ship's bell which is bronze and not brass. I've done a lot of brass bells, but I've never worked with bronze. Will it cut in a similar fashion? I would guess that it will be softer and not crisp - kind of like a poor aluminum or pot metal. Has anyone worked with older bronze? Thanks!

 

[JJ Roberts]

Tira...I am friendly with a couple Forrest & Barbara Taylor. Forrest builds cannons and Barbara engraves them.
They are bronze and I don't think she has any problem that I know of. I wish I had their telephone #. You may try to Google their name & address in Maryland. Keep up the good work.

 

[Tim Wells]

I made a bronze nickel holder and engraved some lettering in it and it cut just fine. It didn't seem to be too granular or anything, a lot like brass in the way it felt. That however can change with bronze types like "oilite" which is for bushings; you bell won't be made of that though. I bet that bell bronze is nice and buttery.

 

[Ron Smith]

Probably won't be much of a problem with pneumatic tools, but it would drive you crazy with the hand tools except for wriggle cutting and short lines. I have never come across any brass or bronze that cuts really good, but the pneumatic tools almost eliminate the possibility of slipping, even on small diameter round items. I don't think it would be worrysome, but let us know how you did with it. Is it going to be lettering or what? From my observation Tira, you are familiar with odd shapes etc. and that might be the biggest challenge of doing the project.......I would say, go for it!!...........unless it is chrome plated or something, but you said it was old.

JJ, Does Barbara use wriggle techniques or no? That might make a difference in how you might have to approach the job.

Tira, try a test cut in an obsure place to settle your mind, but that isn't always conclusive due to the manufacturing processes. It will help you to get an educated guess as to your success, however.

Ron S

 

[Ray Cover]

A lot of it depends on what kind of bronze. If we are talking about cast silicone bronze like used in sculpture you find it extremely soft and gummy. If we are talking about bearing bronze or other alloys intended for machining it will cut quite nicely.

It being a bell that has to ring I doubt it is silicone bronze and, while it is probably cast, it is probably closer in alloy to marine brass. My guess would be that you are going to have more issues with inclusions and other pitfalls of cast material than you are because it is bronze.

Ray

 

[jlseymour]

Tira,
I bought a few bronze 5x1/2x1/8" and gave Ray some at the blade show...
I cut some letters on 1 peice and it cut great with power assist...
PM your address and I'll send you a peice to cut...
Jerry

 

[JJ Roberts]

Tira..That is nice that Jerry will send you a piece so that you can get the feel of the material. I keep different metals to make sure my tools are nice and sharp before I start on the real deal. I hope this project works out for you.

Ron..I don't know whether Barbara uses any wiggle cut, but I know she has power assist. I believe she has the Lindsey Classic.

Keep up the good work.

 

[jimzim75]

Hi Tira,
I think I would use a 120° with a slightly longer heal untill I knew if the metal would support the cut.
Jim

 

[mtgraver]

Tira,
The muzzleloading rifle parts I engrave are either yellow brass or bronze. The soft yellow brass is sticky but cuts fine with oil on the tool, hammer/chisel. The bronze is more like the Aampco 18, Sae 660, or Magnolia 64 bronzes I'd worked with for parts in printing equipment and it was hard and brittle, It chips instead of curls. But it also I use mineral oil as a lube, actually baby oil, smells better. Old original mounts cuts well like on old swords or guns. If I may help give me a call.
Mark
www.MarkThomas-graver.com

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Tira I think your going to run into what Mark describes. My guess is if the bell was actually used it could be work hardened from ringing.

 

[pappy]

Tira,
I guess it will depend on the condition of the material. Some bearing bronzes can be VERY tough to machine.
Hopefully, you will have better luck. Carbide/carbalt might be a better tool for this job. Some bronze alloys contain silicon, that silicon will produce a lot of tool wear with HSS.

 

[david bain]

Tira,I've got some bearing bronze that i thougt i could cast.couldn't get it hot enough poured like molasses.
any way if you want a peice to play with will be happy to send a piece.

 

[autumnwinds44]

Hey Tira,
How is the bell comming along?

 

[Tira]

Thanks for all the help! I have the bell here, but won't get to it for about 2 weeks.... I have to give the owner a quote and we'll see if he wants me to do it once that happens. It's a lettering/logo for both sides of the bell and the bell is 8" tall with a 7" diameter at the base (a baby bell ). This one only weighs about 10 lbs.