Competetive Engraving

[Brian Hochstrat]

Andrew I see what you are talking about, but the reality is that if you come in to high, even if it pencils out that is what you have to have, nobody will give you a chance, when I jumped into the knife market, I based my price along with the established engravers, and nobody would take the chance, I have heard you have no name recognition so many times I have become deaf to that statement, but they are right until you have a name like Cover, Lindsay, Alfano, you will not get what they get until your name can be added to that list. So you do have to take your lumps. Not to degrade or point fingers but that is one issue that needs to be addressed in the the engraving school I attended, it was presented that engravers make $80 an hour and this guy sold a gun for 125K, and on and on, what was not said was that it is a struggle to the top and the top is who is getting those prices, not the kid coming out of school with a new set of tools, that was my perception anyway.

One thing that I would like to advise anyone working to become a high end engraver, be sure your work is good, before you let it out into the public, and simple scroll work will not cut it, you have to be able to produce scene work, and themes, gold inlay and be have your own look. After that keep cutting and let things fall in place, all in good time. That is where I am at presently. Also it helps to have some side work until things do fall into place.

This is all just opinion, please take it as such -Brian

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Andrew ... how right you are. There's also the pitfall of pricing yourself to get your foot in the door. I had to do this and sometimes you gotta to get going. As my work gets better and I get more comfortable with pricing accurately, these customers still consider those old prices as something set in stone. As more work comes in from new people, those original customers keep you away from the new, more profitable work .... just as Brian mentions.

I'm going through this with a store now. Time to hedge my bets, pound the pavement, and get another store or two on the customer list.

Brian, you sure got it all together. Reminds me of the successful business models we studied in business school except that you've got much better quality "widgets".

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Also ... for clarification in reference to my first post (I hope Monk ain't still mad at me).

I think there are three types of folks that "pay their dues" when getting started:

Those that "pay their dues" and learn.
Those that "pay their dues" and don't learn.
Those that "pay their dues" and simply don't mind because they can afford to.

No category is exempt from failure and sometimes you never know which one yer in till you've fallen flat on your head. (that might be me!!)

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Brian H

I agree with you entirley.

To get top artistic dollar you have to do the time and everything else you say. But that is not where I was coming from. I'm talking about day to day stuff to keep food on the table and things ticking over.

Naturally as your work, name & reputation grow then..............charge as much as you can get for it. When you see a slight tear form in the corner of the customers eye...........then you're charging about right.

The problem with starting out too low is that the customers come back expecting the same price and basically you have to start from square one again by finding new customers to pay the increased prices.

In that respect we all hunt with the hounds and run with the hares.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Brian I agree with you about the schools as good as they are they drop the ball at business end of it. But that's not what you sign up for when you take a jewelry engraving class, or a bulino class. You are taught how to engrave. But don't misunderstand me it's wrong for the schools to blow smoke up a students ass also. Business is a whole different animal. I don't think looking at the business as trying to get on a list is a very good business plan. Once you learn a skill it's up to you the individual to do the research, the marketing and all the leg work in between. There's people that go to college for 4 years and still don't know how to do that. It's a skill just as an engraver or any artist at a bench has. So after about 20 or 30 years at a bench you not only are a master at your trade but you have a self earn masters degree in business. It's hard work sitting at a bench and juggle the books and promote your product and pay the taxes and on and on and on. But to me even if I never make the imaginary list I wouldn't trade my job for anything.

 

[Christopher Malouf]

I'm not an accomplished engraver, nor even close in skillwise to most of you here.

Wait .... I just noticed this. Viljo .... you're very good. I checked out your engraving site and although I couldn't read one darn word, the photos are great.

 

[jimzim75]

Street Smarts

HI,
I really like this thread because it show exactly how aware of the market you have to be. Like the iceberg
this is the 65% you don't see. I thought Brian Powleys break down of time an excellent email.

The one thing that kills a lot of profit for me is going to visit the jewellers that are my customers.
Visiting them is what gets me the jobs and their confidence. Keeping this down to a day and half has been
my goal. The thing of it is, I'm going to have to spend the time one way or the other. Either in my shop
or theirs. This business is exacting task master if nothing else. So making your time count, is the most
important. The jeweller sell me something. It's time and accuracy they take in making the sale.

They schmooze the customers which is what I pay them to do by
giving them wholesale rates. They work a full week and I don't have to pay them benefits or for the time
when there not making sales.

The above is something I don't think you'll ever hear in any engraving class. That is the reason why this type of thread is important to the engraving community. In that we can give a sense of what it's like to do
business in a art driven field. What I've tried to tell my son is that people will make you rich in money
and Ideas. It's for you to figure out how to cash in on this. This type of thread will help everyone
recognize a opportunity that right in front of them.

That fills the three require for success, the prepared mind to recognize the opportunity,
the wits to exploit it effectively, and the money and infrastructure to make it happen.

That it for the soap box tonight.

Jim

 

[maryw]

Great thread!! Very informative and helpful for sure!! Thanks to all of you.

Mary W