Drawing designs on metal

[Smallpatch]

Hi Gang,

Another novice question.

I am having a heck of a time finding something that will first of all "show up" when drawing on brass or steel. Pencil just doesn't seem to do it. Because of the fine scratches in the metal, it marks well across the grain, but not with it.
I like the way fine tip markers show up, but they are so wide, they don't allow any precision.

What do you guys use???

 

[sam]

Many engravers use Chinese white for layout. When applied correctly, you can draw on it and lightly erase with a kneadable artist's eraser. I use beeswax & tallow, but it probably won't show up as well as what you're hoping for. You can also use white shoe polish in the bottle. Works well, but is kind of thick and as I recall it flakes off as you're engraving (it's been over 20 years since I last used it). Bear in mind that metal can rust when using the shoe polish or Chinese white. Apply, draw, engrave, wipe off and oil the steel.

Here's a previous thread you might find helpful. / ~Sam

 

[fegarex]

If you are going to refinish the metal, I take some 800 grit paper or one of those gray "Scotch Brite" pads and scuff the area in a circular motion. As far as markers, I sometimes use the Sharpie ultra fine point and I sharpen it on my power hone. Once sharp, you have to use a light touch to keep from bending the tip.

 

[Cody]

I dab the surface with plasticene, AKA modeling clay. It then take a pencil mark reasonable well. Easy to erase for corrections with a finger but care must be taken as it also wipes off easily by accident.

Cody

 

[pilkguns]

I use permament ink magic markers, Sakura from Japan and Staedtler from Germany. You want the 01 size from Sakura and the S size from Staedtler. These are much smaller than Sharpies. Yuo will have to degrease the surface with rubbing alcohol first, and you will also have the use the alcohol to erase with but you won't have any visibility problems or wiping off issues to worry about

 

[Ray Cover]

Scott,

I have also found those at my local artmart in.005 size. they are litterally half the size of the .1 and make a razor thin line.

Have to be real careful with them they are kinda fragile.

Ray

 

[Tim Wells]

If I'm doing brass I just take a wide blue permanent marker and color the surface. It will look like a lighter version of machinists layout dye. Then you can write on that with a pencil and it shows up well, also scribed border lines show up well.

I like those little permanent markers that Scott and Ray mentioned but they are hard to find and dry up quick. If you get some, get a dozen...

Here is a pic taken through my eyepiece of the magic marker layout method and a little pencil custom design work which shows up fine... I won

 

[LRB]

Hey smallpatch, Laurel Mt. Forge has a layout white that I have been using. It works great as long as you don't put on too thick. Takes a fine pointed pencil well, and erases well. Cleans off easy. Just use a light covering with it.

 

[Smallpatch]

I went to OfficeMax today and found "Helix" brand fine line markers for Architectural drawing.

A four piece set of.8mm,.5mm,.3mm and .1mm. They are water based, but water resistant??? I'll give them a try and see how they work.

Thanks for your help guys.

 

[pilkguns]

they won't work. You need permament ink. there are only two on the market I am aware of that work are the two I mentioned.

Tim,
you need to put the cap on those things ;^)
I get about 2-3 years out of mine.

 

[sam]

Scott: I have the two Sakura 0.02mm pens you gave me years ago, and they still work fine. How long ago was that?
~Sam

 

[Dave London]

The Sakura .005 pens are not permanent like the .01's are but if you let the ink dry overnite or use a hair dryer/ heat gun the ink setsup quite well. Also I have noticed that on brass and german silver the ink kind of etches the metal. Just my 2 Cents

 

[John B.]

I like the broad tip felt marker.
Applied all over the layout area.
Then draw the design with a scribe with a slightly rounded tip.
The round tip does not actualy mark the metal, just gives a thin white line in the marker field.
Where you make a boo-boo go over it with a pointed tip marker, same brand and color.
Then redraw just that area.
I think Tim was talking about doing layout this way and I agree with him.
Just my thinking, give it a try maybe.
John B.

 

[LRB]

I may try that also. Sounds good.

 

[Big-Un]

I use the beeswax/tallow concoction with body powder sprinked on it and dabbed in with my finger, then draw on it with a very fine mechanical pencil.

 

[JJ Roberts]

Big-Un,

You are definitely better off with beeswax/tallow combination and talc..especially working on steel. Years ago, I had a rust problem when using Chinese White..I left it on overnight after I scribed everything in, and figured I would wash it off in the morning and start engraving...what a surprise! I had to repolish the whole gun receiver and start over again.

Keep up the good work.

Yours truly,

JJ Roberts
School of Artistic Engraving
Manassas, VA

 

[Big-Un]

Thanks, JJ. Hope to get up there to meet you in the spring.