Engraving ball

[DARNEW]

Hello everyone, Iam going to make a purchase on a ball vise and have used the magna block for engraving belt buckles, but before I purchase another one ( do not have it anymore) I would like some input as to the magna block verses the lower block, or the positioning vise. I will be starting to engrave guns, knifes and jewlery along with the western silver buckles.

Doug

 

[Tim Wells]

To me, the heavier the better. The low one doesn't have as much mass but will serve some better under a scope who can't move their support platform up and down.

The positioning vise is nice too but I'd go with a magna block and a turntable, it's just more versatile.

 

[Weldon47]

I like heavy too, Tim. For the very beefiest of the bunch (I'm personnaly aware of) check out Ray LeTourneau's 50lb ball vise!! It's a doozie & works like a charm.

Weldon

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I have a small ball vice from somewhere (not sure what brand it is) it's about the same size as the regular GRS vice. If I were to replace it with another I'd definatley go for the Magna block size and weight, especially for gun actions. The Ray Le Tourneau vice is another I'd give serious consideration. It's a beautiful peice of kit and the rotation is as smooth as it gets. Both of them weigh about 45lbs.I personally find the smaller ball vice a pain when you want to do some serious metal removal you end up having to support the vice from tipping over.

I'm not sure if you use an optivisor or microscope. For the optivisor you don't need a turn table as the rotation of the top of the vice is all you need. If using a microscope, then as Tim says, the turntable and vice is an excellent combination.

Personally I would consider the holding vice to be one of the most important bits of kit an engraver has to buy and use. It's not dictated by price but by versatility. It can mean struggling with a job or running smoothly.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Sam]

I'm not doing any gun actions, but my vise is the low profile vise on a turntable base. It handles everything I need to do. Keep in mind that if you're using a microscope, a taller vise means either the scope has to be raised and/or the vise must be lowered. If you're a tall guy it's usually not an issue. For medium to short people it can really be a problem. I'd suggest doing the math and see how it's going to work before making the investment.

 

[ChrisB]

Hi All,
I have the same Problem? Question, !
I have a ball vise that I made from the Meeks Book, 17kg.
But I engrave under a Microscope, and find that I have to Chase the Job Around as well as Reposition it !!
I engrave Mostly on my Own Knives.
This Gives me a lot of Dog legs!! Etc. I I find that I have to Go Back and Try and Clean Up.!! a Pain!
So reading from the reply's here, I need Some Advice, Buying stuff State Side Plays Hell with my Wallet!!!!
$ x 7.5 = A lot of Boodle.
Sam would it be Better to go for the Turntable ? or a Positioning Vise, I Tried a Friends Vise, Andr'e Thorburn, but find that it Doesn't really give to much movement Side Ways, especially if You Are Engraving Folder Scales.!! 120mm long.
Advise would be Appreciated.
ChrisB.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Chris, I use a positioning vise and I know a few other gun engravers who do too. Don't get me wrong, the turntable works great if you are working on small items on one plane, like knife bolsters. In fact it's brilliant for that. But guns have so many oddly shaped surfaces and often the vise has to be canted right over to engrave say the detonating on an action. As you cant the piece over it moves out of the focal plane but quite often repositioning with the positioning vise avoids having to refocus the scope. Also, when working on large heavy pieces you need a large heavy vise and quite often the vises on a turntable are a lot lighter.

That being said a lot of it is what you get used to. As I say, I love my positioning vise for the work I do. Others love the lazy susan because they work differently. If in the future I end up doing a lot of knife work there's no doubt I'd switch to the turntable.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Chris

If you want to make a real cheap turntable you should be able to buy a lazy Susan bearing in South Africa. Just make sure its about 200mm or a bit more in diameter. Cut 2 circles about 300mm in diameter out of flat laminated plywood or similar (roughly about 12 mm thick). Screw everything togeather. The big trick is to make sure it rotates on a flat plane as possible and dosn't wobble to much. The whole thing when finished will be about 35mm thick

Centre your scope to the centre of the turntable and then move your vise around under the scope. Turn the table, not the vise. That way the area you are working on will always be central to the scope.

Sam......I was reading your post. I remember mucking about for hours getting the table height, working distance and scope height just right. My personal experience was that 50mm to high or low would give me a kink in my neck, shoulders or back. A good investment turned out to be a chair with good support features and everything positioned so that I was forced to sit upright with no slouching or craning my neck and shoulders. I'm 6ft tall so I can see that vertically challenged people may struggle with a big ball vise and scope combination.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Sam]

Chris: I prefer the turntable base and low profile vise. Positioning vises are good and are really heavy and solid. I find that for my work, the low profile is just fine. Don Glaser also engraved with one, as well as Bob Finlay, and they did gun engraving and didn't have problems. A turntable will give you much more travel than a positioning vise, so keep that it mind. It's also considerably faster since you simply scoot the vise around on the turntable, often with the graver not leaving the cut (and sometimes during cutting!).

I've been through half a dozen homemade turntables made with hardware store lazy susan bearings, and none provided smooth rotation without sticking. Maybe there's a really good bearing out there, but I couldn't find one.

Andrew: Yes, a good chair with hydraulic adjustment is a must!

~Sam

 

[Don Cowles]

I have exactly the same setup that Sam uses, even to the hydraulic chair, and I didn't arrive at these choices until after having messed with both the Magna black and the positioning vise. Fortunately, there is a lively market for used engraving equipment.

 

[FANCYGUN]

My vice set up for microscope work on guns and knives is a GRS Magnabloc. I've had this vice for a gazillion years and like the wieght and mass of it. I set up my microscope to fit me while i am sitting in a comfortable position. The vice is set on a drill press stand so I can raise and lower the vice in order to let the work being engraved come into the focusing area of the scope. I was rotating the drill press table instead of the vice and found this to be unacceptable as the rotation was not smooth enough. I then purchased the GRS Lazy Susan turntable and find the total package works to my satisfaction. I do like the Magnabloc as opposed to the positioning vice due to the wieght. Repositioning is not a problem as all I have to do is slide the vice across the turntable to keep everything centered.
Marty

 

[Jon C. Dake]

Sam, have you tired the lazy Susan turntable bearing that Lee Valley & Veritas sells. http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&cat=3,44013&p=44014. These bearings are really smooth and have a very low profile and they do not have the wobble and movement that the cheap bearings have that you get at the local Lowes or Home Depot. I cut out the base and top of the turntable with a router and inset the bearing to maintain the lowest profile I could, while still leaving enough room for clearance between the turntable and base. The only problem that I noticed is that the grease hole is not tapped for a regular grease zirt, but rather, I think, a 5/16 bolt hole. I solved the dilemma of greasing the bearing by drilling a hole in a short bolt and tapping it to fit a regular grease zirt then screwing it into the hole and greasing it with my grease gun.

 

[DARNEW]

engraving block

Thankyou all for your advise.
I really liked the Magna block I had before because of the weight when making those long bright cuts on the buckles, and since I will be doing some more of the buckles I will stick with the Magna block and adjust the hieght when I need to use the scope for more intricate engraving under the scope.

Doug