Engraving problems from newbie

[boone.liane]

Hello all.

Ive been perusing this site for some time now and decided to finally post.
I was directed here from a member of a muzzleloading building site. I can say I have already learned so much (never would have gotten my gravers sharpened the right way had it not been for this site, thanks ).

I recently got into building muzzleloading rifles, and would like to do some engraving on my second one.

I have been practicing on some sheet brass (I have heard steel engraves easier, but as most of my rifle engraving will be on brass, why not practice on it).

I have been using square hand gravers. The faces are a 45 degree angle, and the heels are 5-10 degrees and pretty short (learned here that this reduces tip breakage).
I have tried both pushing and chasing the gravers with a small hammer, but both give me the same results. If I push the graver, all I get is a light scrach, much like an awl would make. If I chase with the hammer at a slight angle of attack (20-25 degrees), again all I get is a scrach. If I increase my angle of attack to 45 or greater, the graver seems to just sit and dig a hole. I am at my wits end. Two days of practice and I have yet to make one decent cut. .

Sharpening was done on arkansas stones, ending with a surgical black, and stroped on leathe with simichrome. The gravers are sharp (i can sharpen a chisel no problem) and have the blood to prove it .

What am I doing wrong?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Boone

 

[Ray Cover]

Raise your heel angle to 15 degrees and don't strop on the leather.

The 5 degree heel with a 45 face makes a very pointy tip that will break easy. You may be breaking before you get to cut. Also you may be rounding your leading edge too much with the leather strop. I never strop any of my gravers.

Ray

 

[loyd freeman]

Take one class

Hi, If you take "one" basic class with GRS you will save yourself many hours of work. GRS classes are great fun and not only will you learn engraving a lot faster but the people you meet are great. Try it,I did four years ago and went back three other times. You might give up building guns and start engraving them. Loyd Freeman

 

[ghipszky]

How do you get to take a grs class??
Ginger

 

[rhenrichs]

Hey Boone,
Where are you at in North Dakota

Roger Henrichs

 

[Joe Mason]

Ray is right. You got to get that heal angle up so it want dig in. Play with the angles to find a combination that feels good to you. I use a 50 face with a 20 heal. Only because I like the way it cuts and feels. Good luck, I hope you get that graver cutting for you soon.

Joe

 

[FANCYGUN]

Boone
What everyone here has said is ture about your problem. I also like to start my students out with a slightly longer heel this way they can see it when they learn to sharpen and get used to how it works for them. As they get a feel for the tool you can change the angle and shorten for best affect.
Ginger.all you have to do to take a GRS class is give them a call and see what classes are open and when they are.

Marty

 

[KSnyder]

Boone, i agree with the others about the 15 deg. heel, I dont think the face makes too much difference as long as its in the ball park.(45-55).
Another aside is it takes a bit of time to learn how to cut hammer & chisel. Most ml rifle engraving is lines & borders which can be done nicely with hammer & chisel.
Montgomery community college in NC. has 2 online courses that are very inexpensive & teach the basics of hammer & chisel. You can do a google search & find this online.
Just another option for you starting out.
Kent

 

[boone.liane]

Thanks for all the help guys!

I increased my heel to 20 degrees. Im using a crocker style sharpening jig. Im not sure how long a heel I made, but I made it much longer than I had it. I didnt strop this time, and was able to cut my first halfways decent line.
I left my faces at 45 for now. I have some more gravers coming with 90 degree rough faces, those I will make closer to 55 or so.
After only an hour of practicing (really just playing) I was suprised at how cleaner my lines had become. Im nowhere near ready to start on a rifle, but got some of my confidence up. It doesnt look nearly as daunting as several nights ago.

Thanks again for all the help.

Roger, im in Fargo. Im originaly from Devils Lake but now go to school and work at NDSU. Are you in ND?

 

[Marian Sawby]

GRS and FEGA

Definitely take a class or classes from GRS. Also, get the equipment if you can. I know that sometimes cost is a limiting factor, but when you consider that people go into debt for a car, furniture, etc., investing in YOURSELF by getting the right equipment will (possibly fairly quickly) pay for itself. Additionally, the instruction at GRS is excellent. Most of the teachers there have spent years learning to engrave and generously share the basics and engraving tricks that it will take you years to learn on your own. The GRS staff stays in touch and is there to help you as well.

I would also recommend becoming a member of FEGA ( Firearms Engravers Guild of America )if you are not already. Even though I do not intend to engrave firearms, I joined FEGA five years ago. As a member you receive a magazine that contains news and engraving tips, plus additional tips to keep in a notebook as a reference. The FEGA show ( in Reno in Jan. ) is a great opportunity to see quality engraving and to attend Monday workshops which are free. Your annual membership fee in FEGA gets you into that show and the American Bladesmith Show which is held in the same place. Marian Sawby

 

[rhenrichs]

Hi Boone,
Yes I live in Fargo and I'm one the two gun engravers (that I know about) in ND. If you need some help, give me a shout. Maybe I can help you get started
You can call me during the day @ 232-0449 night 232-6793

Roger Henrichs

 

[boone.liane]

Thanks Roger, I will very likely give you a ring.

Thanks for everybodies help.

Much appreciated.

 

[monk]

newbie ml engraver

Thanks for all the help guys!

I increased my heel to 20 degrees. Im using a crocker style sharpening jig. Im not sure how long a heel I made, but I made it much longer than I had it. I didnt strop this time, and was able to cut my first halfways decent line.
I left my faces at 45 for now. I have some more gravers coming with 90 degree rough faces, those I will make closer to 55 or so.
After only an hour of practicing (really just playing) I was suprised at how cleaner my lines had become. Im nowhere near ready to start on a rifle, but got some of my confidence up. It doesnt look nearly as daunting as several nights ago.

Thanks again for all the help.

Roger, im in Fargo. Im originaly from Devils Lake but now go to school and work at NDSU. Are you in ND?

boone: if you're interested, monk45@verizon.net i can email you a bunch of j-pegs of cuts and textures that are good for you to practice for this type engraving. i just came across these old sample plates this morning. i may even get them printed up for others who might be interested.