Critique Request First engraving under my new microscope

[Dani Girl]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to thanks all the folk on here who helped me to sort through all the info on microscopes. I ended up getting a Leica A-60F... which is great.

These are the first engravings done under it. The brass handled larger knife I just drew the design on with a felt tip pen and went over it with a scriber slightly polished so that i could really see what i was doing.

The second I (very naughty) took a Sam Alfano Casting of that awesome little Al Mar knife he engraved and using transfer wax and sticky tape just stuck his design straight onto the bolster... then smudged out the bits that didn't work and added a few so that it fitted onto the whole work area. As you can see none have been shaded yet.

I think I've been engraving for about 2 years and five months. First engraving under a microscope though. The brass the larger knife is made of doesn't seem to be engraver's brass... really challenging cutting.

Background done by going back through the canyons around my leaf shapes and leaning the graver into the background area to protect the sidewalls while removing background. Then background removed with nsk presto rotary with a really really small round carbide bur. Then the background gone over with a needle point stipple tool in the chisel handpiece, Lindsay palm control is what I'm using.

I'll post the pictures in a couple of minutes. Would really appreciate advice on ways of centering the work under the scope... I'll show what I'm using... I'm sure someone will have some ideas on how I could improve on that. Thanks everyone.

Danae.

 

[RDP]

Hurry up with the photos already!! :biggrin::banana::banana:

Richard.

 

[Dani Girl]

Pictures as promised. Sam... Hope you will forgive for borrowing your design. I just wanted to see how good I could be under the scope and your design is by far the best I have ever seen. I would recommend buying this casting and the DVD of Sam engraving it to anyone.

 

[Dani Girl]

Got the microscope from tira and just wanted to say she is absolutely great to deal with and they really looked after me. Five stars guys.

 

[mrthe]

Hey! look great! where you have buy the casting? i want one!

 

[Dani Girl]

Castings

HEY, I can't remember how to get hold of sam's castings... fega doesn't have that one... I am certain that Sam would be happy to direct to where his castings are for sale.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Danae

There's more to working with a microscope than just buying the microscope. There are several other factors that have to come into play.

To centre your work under a microscope........you need a turntable. You can live without it, but as you have figured out, it makes life very hard. The turn table is essential, not just an option. I have had to engrave under a microscope without a turntable and it wasn't pleasant, in fact, it was almost impossible to make a decent job of it.

You have two choices. Buy one or make one. I use the GRS turntable and it's brilliant. To make one is easy and cheap enough as all you need is a bit of plywood and a bearing. It ends up similar to a Lazy Susan..........but make sure you use a large bearing that runs to the edge of the turntable, This is to prevent the turntable from tipping over. If you make one you should see it as a temporary measure till you can buy a decent one made for the job. The difference between a proper one and a home made one is like chalk and cheese.

You also need something decent to put the turntable on so that it is stable and solid. Plus you need to set your microscope up so that it does not cause you backache. Sitting in the wrong position for several hours will do it and 50mm can be the difference between working easy or bad neck and back strain.

And your work is coming along nicely.. Well done

Cheers
Andrew

PS. After the turntable I would highly recommend that you make your next purchase a decent ball vise made for the job. You will notice a huge difference from what you are using now.

 

[Dani Girl]

Thanks Andrew. Yes, the vice I used on this large knife is rather inconvenient... $30 job, I'm sure it will come in handy for other things. I have a turn table underneath it (a spinning chair cushion mum bought dad the other day) very much a temporary fix. I think I'll upgrade to a microwave turn table tomorrow.
How do you tell what is the perfect position to be sitting to prevent fatigue and/or long term damage?

Thanks

Danae.

 

[Dani Girl]

microscopes

So. If I am using a microscope correctly. I would bring the scope over to the center of my turntable and lock it in place so it can't move. Then just shift the part I'm engraving on to be perfectly centered under that. When I move on to another leaf move the vice so that it's in the middle of the scope? That way the turn table will spin it properly and I won't see my engraving tool wander off into the distance. Is that right?

 

[Marrinan]

Danae, Nice clean cutting. well done, remember the article is going to be viewed with the naked eye. move the scope away from time to time to evaluate from that prospective. Lots of work is far over shaded to me. Ultrafine shading on soft metals that are intended to be used will be worn smooth and all that work for nothing and ticks people off when the work doesn't hold up.

Improvising your setup and tools is fine way to go. Take it slow buying things. Only buy what you need. Need what you buy. There are turn table bearings out there in the 12 inch size that are designed for things like the televisions. You should be able to find good bearings for $15-$20 with 200 lb capacity.

Now for the seating position question: I got the free poster and brochure mentioned in a recent thread from the manufacture of your scope. Don't have time to search for the posting right now-search ergonomic and you should find them. Start from the ground up on your set up literally. Start with your chair or stool. Your going to sit in it for hours on end (you should getup every hour at least and move around) when you are seated your thighs should be 90 degrees from spine to lap. Feet should be flat on the floor 90 degrees to your chin bones straight under the knees. . your shoulders should be relaxed and should be parallel to the trunk of the body. your elbows should be 90 degrees to your upper arms and your wrists should be straight extension of your for arm. how that you are seated in your chair what's next. Remembering that you and your chair are a lot of 90 degree angles. Your cutting height is again 90 degrees elbow joint, wrists straight. have someone measure this height for you. That is the top of your completed work surface (working height of the top of whatever vice you use. There will be times when you have to be above this for short periods. That's okay, if you are going to be two inches higher for a week adjust everything we have discussed so far to this new working height. Some people like arm rests and some don't, I use them sometimes to steady sometimes to rest my arms,,,,, if employed they should support at 90 degree to the trunk of the body. Now you have a body of 90 degree angles exactly what the doctor ordered.

Seated in your ideal chair it is time to bring the scope into play. Under no circumstances should you have to change your seating arrangement to see through the scope. You should be able to hold your head up with neck straight slide up to the scope and be looking directly in the eye pieces. no stretch no lean no craning. You may find that your ideal work position is not with the scope at 90 degrees to the world (vertically level). So what. If your body tell you to have the scope set 5 degrees behind vertical set it that way is your neck and spinal column. Never set up so you have to reach for the scope with your neck or other body part. You need to assume the proper body position then move the scope and vice to match. Have a big vice and a little vice-block up the little vice to match the height of the bigger vice.

Search ergonomics seating fro microscope work on thee site and the whole net. Two surgeries and an very near end to engraving (and walking) says pay attention to your body, don't over shade leafs. and enjoy you ne tool. Your self taught and getting better all the time. Fred

 

[scott99]

HI, nice cutting.

scott99

 

[silverchip]

Right on Dani!!!!!!!!!!!! You are on the right road!!!

 

[dlilazteca]

Great job

Saludos,

Carlos

 

[Andrew Biggs]

So. If I am using a microscope correctly. I would bring the scope over to the center of my turntable and lock it in place so it can't move. Then just shift the part I'm engraving on to be perfectly centered under that. When I move on to another leaf move the vice so that it's in the middle of the scope? That way the turn table will spin it properly and I won't see my engraving tool wander off into the distance. Is that right?

Yes, all the above is correct. In the beginning it's a bit slow and frustrating but you get used to it quickly and it all just becomes second nature. It takes a while to get used to a microscope and its set-up.

Fred's description of setting up the scope is basically correct. It all starts with your chair. You should be able to sit straight and just lean forward slightly and your eyes fall onto the eyepieces. If you are having to straighten up too far your neck and back will suffer badly. Likewise if you have to slouch the same will happen. I'm unfamiliar with your microscope but they are all very similar in setup. There should be a height adjustment knob somewhere on the side of the microscope stand where the scope slots into. This allows you to raise and lower the scope by about 50 to 80mm. Set it roughly to the half way mark. This will allow you to make minor focus/height adjustments as you go. This is the sweet spot for you..........everything else is then set below that.

Take great care setting this up as it's worth the time and effort and your back/neck will thank you for it.

Ideally you want to raise and lower your work if you can. This is why a lot of engravers use a drill press stand. The scope stays in the same position (apart from the minor adjustments) and you can raise and lower your work accordingly. This is a great way to work and a rock solid setup.

A microwave turntable..........generally these are way to weak and flimsy. You need weight and solid. This is an important piece of kit and you would be better off looking at somewhere like Bunnings and getting an outdoor BBQ Lazy Susan. Better still, save your money and buy a decent one made for the job. If you search the forum there has been some clever alternatives but I'm unsure what is available in Aussie. Whatever you use you need to make sure the bearing goes to the edge (or just shy of the edge) otherwise your vise weight will cause wobble when on the outer edge. Wobble can be worked around but is a pain in the bum.

Your vise set-up is OK as a temporary measure. But I would encourage you to get a proper engravers ball vise. It is an essential piece of kit for what you are trying to do.

All of these things add up to being able to work more efficiently and produce better quality work. Yes, you can always get by but what I have suggested will mean the difference between night and day with your work.

Yes, it's all money, but hey, you can't take it with you. And don't worry, we have all been there, done that and have the video and T-shirt to prove it.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[dlilazteca]

I can see why that turntable works for you, you have a large vise (not an engravers ball)

Saludos,

Carlos

 

[Dani Girl]

Can anyone understand the description of this turntable on ebay. Would this be an improvement on a microwave turntable for vice/microscope centering?

Danae.

 

[Dani Girl]

sorry... forgot attachments.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lazy-Sus...Building_Materials&hash=item3384e42438&_uhb=1

or

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rotating...953?pt=AU_Utensils&hash=item2335ec1229&_uhb=1

I'm thinking there could be better? For cheap for now. Thanks everyone for the time reading and answering. Really means a lot

 

[mrthe]

My first turntable was one like the second link you posted, a plastic turntable for tv and don't work fir me, simply because with the vise on it don't turn, i use for the moment a modifyed Shimpo turntable and i'm with happy with it, the past week i have tested some grs stuffs, the turntable was one of them and i really like it, will be my next upgrade i think, the shimpo one is great smooth and cheap but have a little wobble, with my modification i have reduce it a lot, but i had to clamp it to my shelf vise,and if i will have to engrave items more bigger will be a problem,if you can reduce all types of vibrations when you are working will be the best, it cause broken graver points and not accurate shading

 

[Big-Un]

I haven't been using a turntable but decided to use one we have in the house for the middle of the table at meals for a job and it was a DISASTER! My vise got off center and I had a heck of a time catching everything before it hit the floor and my feet. Don't play around with cheap or "available" turntables, get one made for the job. That's what I'm going to do now. Believe me, cheap ain't the way to go!

Bill

 

[dlilazteca]

My first turntable was one like the second link you posted, a plastic turntable for tv and don't work fir me, simply because with the vise on it don't turn, i use for the moment a modifyed Shimpo turntable and i'm with happy with it, the past week i have tested some grs stuffs, the turntable was one of them and i really like it, will be my next upgrade i think, the shimpo one is great smooth and cheap but have a little wobble, with my modification i have reduce it a lot, but i had to clamp it to my shelf vise,and if i will have to engrave items more bigger will be a problem,if you can reduce all types of vibrations when you are working will be the best, it cause broken graver points and not accurate shading

Mr the

I thought you were using one of those blue turntables? How is that working for you?

Saludos,

Carlos