Critique Request First engraving under my new microscope
- Thread starter Dani Girl
- Start date
Willem Parel
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Hey Paolo, what do I read, POWER HONE MrTHE PROTOTYPE ??? Are you developing a new hone?
Very nice set up also.
Very nice set up also.
Marrinan
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Check out woodcraft.com search lazy susan The first one is rated for 1000 pounds runs real smooth. Its a 12 inch.Mount to plywood top and bottom cut round as you can. You can use other materials for the plate steel, aluminum or kitchen sink cutouts from you local cabinet shop. If you are not satisfied with it you can set you fridge on it. When my GRS fell apart I used one for quite a while. Worked great and cost $8 US Fred
dlilazteca
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Mr the
What modification did you do? I'm thinking of buying one for My daughter. Thanks again
Saludos,
Carlos
What modification did you do? I'm thinking of buying one for My daughter. Thanks again
Saludos,
Carlos
I have pull off the base that is smaller than the plate, and i have screwed it directly on the shelf vise, i have put a sort of steel little disk betwin the turntable and the shelf to regulate the bearing ,in this way i have eliminate the little wooble that the turntable had and now work perfect
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
Hi Danae
The second one is totally unsuitable for what you want. Your vise has to slide over the surface so the non slip surface is not what you want.
The first one is your better choice...........but you will want it bigger if you can get it. Ideally 10 to 12 inches. (250mm ~ 300mm). One thing I would suggest...........because I am only going by your photos, make a paper template of a circle first. Place your vise on that and make sure the turntable will be big enough for you. You don't want it too big or to small. Both will be a pain in the backside. You also want some sort of non slip on the bottom as the idea is to push the vise around, not vise and turntable at the same time.
Cut up 2 pieces 12mm thick in a circle. Use ply, custom board or anything that is solid. Screw top and bottom. This is what I used for a couple of years and it did the job. Not very well but it worked enough to get me going. Eventually your mind/hand coordination will compensate for any wobbles..............basically it will get you through until you can purchase a proper turntable. MrThe is correct. On very small pieces its not a big deal but on bigger pieces where your vise is on the outer edge of the turntable it makes a big difference.
A word of warning when it comes to buying an engravers ball vise which you eventually will...............some are great and others can be not so good and the price between the two is not much. The rotation of the vise has to be smooth but not that bigger deal because your turntable does the rotating when using a microscope. Look for jaws closing squarely and no movement in the jaws. I used an unbranded vise for a few years and it seemed fine because I didn't know any better. Then I used a GRS low profile vise and realised just how crappy my original was. So now I use the GRS low profile vise.
Cheers
Andrew
The second one is totally unsuitable for what you want. Your vise has to slide over the surface so the non slip surface is not what you want.
The first one is your better choice...........but you will want it bigger if you can get it. Ideally 10 to 12 inches. (250mm ~ 300mm). One thing I would suggest...........because I am only going by your photos, make a paper template of a circle first. Place your vise on that and make sure the turntable will be big enough for you. You don't want it too big or to small. Both will be a pain in the backside. You also want some sort of non slip on the bottom as the idea is to push the vise around, not vise and turntable at the same time.
Cut up 2 pieces 12mm thick in a circle. Use ply, custom board or anything that is solid. Screw top and bottom. This is what I used for a couple of years and it did the job. Not very well but it worked enough to get me going. Eventually your mind/hand coordination will compensate for any wobbles..............basically it will get you through until you can purchase a proper turntable. MrThe is correct. On very small pieces its not a big deal but on bigger pieces where your vise is on the outer edge of the turntable it makes a big difference.
A word of warning when it comes to buying an engravers ball vise which you eventually will...............some are great and others can be not so good and the price between the two is not much. The rotation of the vise has to be smooth but not that bigger deal because your turntable does the rotating when using a microscope. Look for jaws closing squarely and no movement in the jaws. I used an unbranded vise for a few years and it seemed fine because I didn't know any better. Then I used a GRS low profile vise and realised just how crappy my original was. So now I use the GRS low profile vise.
Cheers
Andrew
Thanks
Hey Andrew, thanks so much for your reply.
So why does it matter that it's an awesome rotating vice you're using when you're putting it under a scope on a turntable?
I really agree too on the buying a good quality vice, my teacher recently bought one that he thought was the quality version but it turned out to be a cheap knock off and it's really not a pleasure to use. The few extra bucks in something that important is always well worth it.
I think I'll buy one of these bearings and see if i can make something really good out of it to use for a while.
On the subject of ERGONOMICS... would it be a good idea to tilt everything towards me a little bit? I heard of one guy who did this and went for a cup of coffee and then the house shook wildly with an almighty boom. I can just imagine a hole right through the floor with something like that. I'm just glad his feet were out of the picture... yikes.
Hey Andrew, thanks so much for your reply.
So why does it matter that it's an awesome rotating vice you're using when you're putting it under a scope on a turntable?
I really agree too on the buying a good quality vice, my teacher recently bought one that he thought was the quality version but it turned out to be a cheap knock off and it's really not a pleasure to use. The few extra bucks in something that important is always well worth it.
I think I'll buy one of these bearings and see if i can make something really good out of it to use for a while.
On the subject of ERGONOMICS... would it be a good idea to tilt everything towards me a little bit? I heard of one guy who did this and went for a cup of coffee and then the house shook wildly with an almighty boom. I can just imagine a hole right through the floor with something like that. I'm just glad his feet were out of the picture... yikes.
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
Hi Danae
There are times when you want the vise to rotate without a turntable. Besides, good rotation is one of the signs of a good vise. You also need the jaws to close perfectly without any sloppiness. These things make a difference over time.
Yes, give the bearing a go. It's cheap enough and will get you going................. Just make sure you put your pennies aside over a period of time and eventually get a proper turntable and vise. You will not regret it
Do not tilt anything toward you under any circumstances. It brings on a whole new set of problems when using a microscope. If you change one thing then everything changes. You will work far better and more efficiently by keeping everything horizontal.
Cheers
Andrew
There are times when you want the vise to rotate without a turntable. Besides, good rotation is one of the signs of a good vise. You also need the jaws to close perfectly without any sloppiness. These things make a difference over time.
Yes, give the bearing a go. It's cheap enough and will get you going................. Just make sure you put your pennies aside over a period of time and eventually get a proper turntable and vise. You will not regret it
Do not tilt anything toward you under any circumstances. It brings on a whole new set of problems when using a microscope. If you change one thing then everything changes. You will work far better and more efficiently by keeping everything horizontal.
Cheers
Andrew
Marrinan
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Danae, There are several engravers who work with a turntable which is tilted. Some use the potters wheel setup, some use the hand turned setup both work fine. Some scopes eye pieces are set for looking at things on slides germs and stuff. They may have an angle that requires you to strain you neck to see properly on the flat. I personally have my scope tilted with the eye pieces about 3 or 4 degrees toward me. It is more comfortable that way. less neck strain with this setup. Remember chair first then everything that moves in your body at 90 degree angles. When you have the chair right and you neck held as comfortable possible you should be able to look right in your eye pieces. To do this I needed to tilt my scope slightly. If you look through the work bench tread you will see a couple of setups with the vices set at something like ten of fifteen degrees. It is all about keep the ergonomics correct for you. Working at an angle may seem strange at first but you will get used to it and your neck will be saved.
After I had surgery and an attempt at fusing four neck vertebra together the physical therapist took me to the medical lab and set me at the scope with proper alignments. Had me bring my scope head, they had boom stands. There were only minor adjustments but he said each was important. Taking pain killers for the rest of my life is a pain. Side effects are drowsiness and fatigue. Skip that if you can.Fred
After I had surgery and an attempt at fusing four neck vertebra together the physical therapist took me to the medical lab and set me at the scope with proper alignments. Had me bring my scope head, they had boom stands. There were only minor adjustments but he said each was important. Taking pain killers for the rest of my life is a pain. Side effects are drowsiness and fatigue. Skip that if you can.Fred
Much appreciated
Andrew, Fred... thanks both so much for the valuable imput you're both giving me. I can understand where both of you are coming from, (though you're both coming at this from different angles). You've probably both seen previous posts of mine saying that through archery and working way too hard at previous job I've buggered the ligaments in my shoulders,... I am really wanting to not screw up any other parts for a long long time. I'm investing my savings and my time into making this my future. So, I really appreciate all the imput of everyone who's been helping me along on this journey and showing me how to make informed decisions.
I'm keeping my eye out for a drill press to put my vice on... if anyone has one laying around or ideas on where to find one much appreciated.
I'll try to jimmy up a good turn table which will suffice for the time being. I'm using the cushion again tonight but it's bad for the lower back as it's over 15" diameter and I have to lean way over to get to the eye pieces. I'll get the 9" and the 12" and swap between them for what suits the job I'm doing best. That said I'm really stoked with the shading i was able to do on a rotating cushion tonight
Andrew, Fred... thanks both so much for the valuable imput you're both giving me. I can understand where both of you are coming from, (though you're both coming at this from different angles). You've probably both seen previous posts of mine saying that through archery and working way too hard at previous job I've buggered the ligaments in my shoulders,... I am really wanting to not screw up any other parts for a long long time. I'm investing my savings and my time into making this my future. So, I really appreciate all the imput of everyone who's been helping me along on this journey and showing me how to make informed decisions.
I'm keeping my eye out for a drill press to put my vice on... if anyone has one laying around or ideas on where to find one much appreciated.
I'll try to jimmy up a good turn table which will suffice for the time being. I'm using the cushion again tonight but it's bad for the lower back as it's over 15" diameter and I have to lean way over to get to the eye pieces. I'll get the 9" and the 12" and swap between them for what suits the job I'm doing best. That said I'm really stoked with the shading i was able to do on a rotating cushion tonight
shading
Tonights work
Tonights work
Attachments
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IMAG3595.jpg
ptfe pad
Is the ptfe pad on grs site for sliding vice around the same thing that they use for heating thermoloc... does microwaving it do anything to the plastic, Last time i stuck thermoloc in the microwave I had it stuck to some wood and the wood smoked the microwave out and the thermoloc melted faster than i expected. I don't know if it was the massive gold ring that heated faster than it would have heated before I moulded it around it... boss sure was impressed with my mad skills though. madness anyway
Is the ptfe pad on grs site for sliding vice around the same thing that they use for heating thermoloc... does microwaving it do anything to the plastic, Last time i stuck thermoloc in the microwave I had it stuck to some wood and the wood smoked the microwave out and the thermoloc melted faster than i expected. I don't know if it was the massive gold ring that heated faster than it would have heated before I moulded it around it... boss sure was impressed with my mad skills though. madness anyway
Does the grs diamond point stipple tool fit into a lindsay palm control, and does a diamond stipple point stipple background ok, or stick with sharpened carbide?
Marrinan
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Beautiful Shading Job! You are doing terrific young lady.
I don't know about the thermoloc pad sliding around on the turn table. My homemade turn table with the 1000lb bearings has a top mad from a sink cutout so covered with Formica and vise slides fine-my GRS turn table is steal and the block slides as easy as I need it to.
GRS stipple tool should fit your palm control Lindsay. I use old carbide burs for stippling tools. You put them in a slow speed drill and turn them against the direction of rotation as you grind on you roughest powerhone disk, They will get needle sharp. I run the very tip vertically on a ceramic stone three or four strokes to blunt them just a tiny bit or (now this is my secret to stippling for black background) use a .05 or smaller ball burr. It will cut five lines with each tap causing the light to be trapped. Get the tinniest you can find. Check with your dentist. If he/she doesn't have used ones they have catalogs with them in it. You can also find them on line.
Your doing very well, Congratulations. Fred
I don't know about the thermoloc pad sliding around on the turn table. My homemade turn table with the 1000lb bearings has a top mad from a sink cutout so covered with Formica and vise slides fine-my GRS turn table is steal and the block slides as easy as I need it to.
GRS stipple tool should fit your palm control Lindsay. I use old carbide burs for stippling tools. You put them in a slow speed drill and turn them against the direction of rotation as you grind on you roughest powerhone disk, They will get needle sharp. I run the very tip vertically on a ceramic stone three or four strokes to blunt them just a tiny bit or (now this is my secret to stippling for black background) use a .05 or smaller ball burr. It will cut five lines with each tap causing the light to be trapped. Get the tinniest you can find. Check with your dentist. If he/she doesn't have used ones they have catalogs with them in it. You can also find them on line.
Your doing very well, Congratulations. Fred
KCSteve
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Be very careful heating ThermoLoc in the microwave with anything else. If you read the GRS instructions you're supposed to heat it in short bursts with rest times in between. They say 20 seconds, on my 'cheapest one I could find at WalMart' I start off with 20 seconds and as it heats go to about 5 second bursts. If you overheat ThermoLoc it stops working.
I use the ThermoLoc on sticks to hold things but I only used the microwave to do the initial heating of the ThermoLoc to get it on the sticks. Now I use my little heat pen to soften it to get stuff in and out. Go to the local crafts store and look for the scrapbooking section. You should find a heat gun for embossing that's around $30. You can use a regular heat gun, of course, but they're larger and a bit clumsier. With the sticks you don't need to get the whole blob soft, just the top layer.
For some things you can use a burnisher (or other non-marring item) to put in a dent under your time you can later use to pop it out of the ThermoLoc. For things where you don't think that will work just use your heat gun to soften the TL enough to get the item out. It doesn't take a lot of heat - I remember someone saying they just used an old gooseneck lamp with a 100 watt bulb. Set the piece a few inches under the bulb and let it sit for a bit and it will soften right up.
And I'll bet your boss was impressed with your skills!
I use the ThermoLoc on sticks to hold things but I only used the microwave to do the initial heating of the ThermoLoc to get it on the sticks. Now I use my little heat pen to soften it to get stuff in and out. Go to the local crafts store and look for the scrapbooking section. You should find a heat gun for embossing that's around $30. You can use a regular heat gun, of course, but they're larger and a bit clumsier. With the sticks you don't need to get the whole blob soft, just the top layer.
For some things you can use a burnisher (or other non-marring item) to put in a dent under your time you can later use to pop it out of the ThermoLoc. For things where you don't think that will work just use your heat gun to soften the TL enough to get the item out. It doesn't take a lot of heat - I remember someone saying they just used an old gooseneck lamp with a 100 watt bulb. Set the piece a few inches under the bulb and let it sit for a bit and it will soften right up.
And I'll bet your boss was impressed with your skills!
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
Yes, it is the same pad for sliding the vise as it is for heating thermolock. It is non stick.
Heat thermolock slowly on pad and mould to shape. Carefully release with a heat gun.
You should try thermolock on plywood with two screws in it.........Smoke and lightning inside the microwave. It was spectacular.
Very nice shading
Cheers
Andrew
Heat thermolock slowly on pad and mould to shape. Carefully release with a heat gun.
You should try thermolock on plywood with two screws in it.........Smoke and lightning inside the microwave. It was spectacular.
Very nice shading
Cheers
Andrew
Mike Cirelli
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Dani I would suggest not to waste your time with those turntables. I did and those aren't worth a crap with a heavy vise on them. They're stiff and catch, right when you don't want them to. GRS's is pretty darn good, had mine quit a while now with no problems. All I ever did was take it apart and clean it a few times.
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