Question: For All You Brightwork Silversmiths and Jewelers

[Doc Mark]

I want to try some piercework in copper and sterling. I have a couple of jewelers' saw frames but don't know which blades to buy. Do you use the straight cutting blades or the ones that can cut in any direction? What sizes are the most useful? A simple question, I assume you cut on the down (pull) stroke, is this correct? Do you use any lubrication on the saw blade? An ancillary question: after cutting out the piece, when you start the filing, do you use chalk in the needle files like you do when using a draw file?

Any info will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[silverchip]

Mark,
I really like Rio Grande's Laser Gold blades.They are more$$ than most brands but seem to hold up better.My size of choice for general work is 4/0 and for finer work you can go up to 8/0 fine.
It takes some practice to keep the saw going in a perpendicular stroke.I try to move the material into the blade so I don't twist the saw frame while working if possible. Try not to choke the handle to death but hold it with a light three finger grip.Let the blade do the work and don't push forward with anymore pressure than it takes to keep the teeth in contact with the material.

Good Luck,
Dave

 

[mdengraver]

Answer to You Question?

I use beeswax to lubricate the saw blades. There's also a product called Burr Life if they still sell it that can be used to lubricate saw blades. The size of the saw blade is determined by the metal thickness. I believe the rule of thumb is at least 3 teeth should make contact with the metal thickness for effective cutting. I personally use the one-side blades. The saw blades can vary in quality. I recall Rio Grande Albuquerque used to sell some top quality blades that don't break as easily. The blades need to have proper tension on them to prevent breakage. If the blades are slack they are more likely to break and the tension should be checked periodically. When sawing let the blade do the cutting but apply minimal pressure. Hope this helps.

Looks like Silverchip beat me to the punch about the Rio Grande Albuquerque saw blades.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Mark I would suggest getting some 7/0 and 4/0. The teeth point toward the handle. You don't have to use lubricant. You can use a heavy duty length of string attached at one end to your bench. Charge the string with some polishing compound of choice. Works good for polishing the hard to reach spots.

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

You need the ones that saw in just one direction, not the round ones.
The best ones I have are the Swiss made from A & F "Gold Shark"
There are different n° but 4/0 and 6/0 are fine for almost all work.

The advantage of the A & F saws is that they saw straight, I have tried others but to saw straight you need sometimes to hold the saw angled.

here is the link just click the jewellery tools http://www.afswitzerland.com/pn/

or follow this link http://www.afswitzerland.com/pn/Products/Catalogue%20outils%20bijoutiers.pdf

arnaud

 

[mdengraver]

Jaw Blade Specifications and Rio Grande Albuquerque Website

Jeweler Saw Blade Specifications : Sizes and Recommended Material ...
Jeweler Saw Blade Specifications. Blade Size, Blade Thickness, Blade Depth, Teeth per Inch, Recommended for B&S Gauge, Drill Size for Piercing ...
www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/jewelers_saw_blades.htm - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

RIO GRANDE ALBUQUERQUE WEBSITE:

http://jewelrymaking.about.com/gi/d...&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http://www.riogrande.com/

 

[mdengraver]

Picture of Teeth Direction Saw Blade

http://www.volcanoarts.biz/cart/metalsmithing/gallery/sawframe.jpg

 

[mdengraver]

How to Use a Jewelers Saw Tutorial

http://www.ehow.com/how_4772007_use-jewelry-saw.html

 

[James Miller]

Tips on saw piercing

Hi Mark,
I am a goldsmith in the UK and saw piercing is my speciality. I use Glarden Vallorbe, Swiss made jewellers saw blades as I think they are the best blades available in the UK. For cutting sheet thickness 0.020" would use size 4.0 blades, sheet thickness 0.040" I use 3.0 or 2.0 blades, sheet thickness 0.060" I use saw size 0.
Good luck with your piercing, I love doing it and can happily spend all day piercing, although I am sometimes shocked at the methods taught by so called qualified teachers. If I can give you any tips please contact me.
Take a look at one of my previous postings on the forum to see some photos of my piercing work.
Good luck James Miller

 

[jimzim75]

Charge the string with some polishing compound of choice. Works good for polishing the hard to reach spots.

Mike has a good suggestion. I've found that if you use a 50 pound fishing line, it will holds up longer.
This is the braided stuff.

Jim

 

[James Miller]

Mark,
I forgot to mention that I use a candle as lubrication for my saw blades when cutting. Also when piercing try holding the saw frame at a right angle to your face so that you can see the front of the blade. I see so many people sawing away from their face, which is not the best way. When I was taught I was told that when sawing, it is better to see where the blade is going, rather than where it has been. I thought you might like to see another photo of one of my jobs that included saw piercing. The chalice is 10 inches high and is guilloche enamelled silver with 18ct gold pierced overlays and is one of a pair which is part of this set.
I hope you like it.
James

 

[d.soileau]

Mike has a good suggestion. I've found that if you use a 50 pound fishing line, it will hold up longer.
This is the braided stuff.

Jim

ill have to try this one

 

[Doc Mark]

Thanks guys for all the info! I have the Rio Grande Catalog so I can get the suggested blades right away. The use of a polishing line is a cool idea.

James,

As usual, your work is stunning. Keep posting your masterpieces!

I want to make sure that I understand your suggestion. Are you saying to cut from right to left (being right handed) across your line of sight, as you are facing the work, rather than cutting away from you in a forward direction while holding the material on the bench pin? It makes sense to me.

Thanks again,

Mark

 

[KCSteve]

Another great thread! :thumbs up:

I'm also going to have to try that polishing line trick.

 

[soj]

This has probably been asked a 1000 times, but, number 1001, does anyone use or has anyone tried using the powered jewelers saws, like Micro Mark has or the New Concept saw by Lee Marshall, or for that matter how about a wood scroll saw with a jewelers saw blade in it? Good thread.

 

[jimzim75]

Yes, but I don't normally require that sort of thing. A jewellers frame is up to most jobs.
The power saw are good if you have a lot of sawing to do of long lines.
A jewellers frame is more responsive to change of direction on small subjects, with less
blade breakage.

Jim

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Mark I think what James is explaining is to fallow the path at an viewed angle so you can see were the blade is going to travel not from were it has already traveled. Which would be viewing and cutting at a slight right angle if you left handed it would opposite. I feel most comfortable cutting most cuts from about a five-o-clock position. Cutting from a position above a three-o-clock would get awkward and at six-o-clock you can't see where your going. You'll find soon enough what feels comfortable for you.

 

[James Miller]

Thanks guys for all the info! I have the Rio Grande Catalog so I can get the suggested blades right away. The use of a polishing line is a cool idea.

James,

As usual, your work is stunning. Keep posting your masterpieces!

I want to make sure that I understand your suggestion. Are you saying to cut from right to left (being right handed) across your line of sight, as you are facing the work, rather than cutting away from you in a forward direction while holding the material on the bench pin? It makes sense to me.

Thanks again,

Mark

Yes Mark, I am right handed and for most piercing on flat metals I cut from right to left, usually under the marked line of piercing. to be precise I was taught to engrave the pattern for piercing and then I was told that a perfect piercer could cut to the centre of the engraved. Also make sure there is no movement in your bench pin, it needs to be as steady as a rock when you are piercing, if you have a loose bench pin then you will have a lot of broken saw blades, I always lublricate the back of the blade with a candle while piercing, this stops the lubricant clogging up the saw teeth or hiding the sawing line when cutting.
I sometimes have to hold the saw frame in odd ways when piercing intricate designs on odd shapes. Here is a photo of me piercing one of my eggs, photo taken 25 years ago and also some simple piercing on a photo frame.
regards James

 

[mdengraver]

Mr. Miller do you..............

Mr. Miller do you do all the work on those chalices including the enameling.
They are ravishing, quite magnificent!

 

[James Miller]

I cannot take credit for that enamelling, I am only a goldsmith and I shape,cut and carve the metals, I leave this type of enamelling to an expert, that piece was one of 7 similar sweet dish sets that I made back in the 1990s. I have posted a photo of another set on a previous posting.