German Engraving Question?

[ED DELORGE]

I have a question. I have seen German engraved guns that have a cross between the antlers of a stag, and usually the hunter is in the kneeling position as if this stag is holy. What is the significance of the deer with the cross? Does anyone know the history of this commonly used sceen in German engraving?

 

[jmcutting]

Here is what I found on it...

Saint Eustace (stag with cross between antlers): invoked against fire (he was martyred by burning), also patron saint of Hunters.

It is also on the Jagermeister bottles...

Here is an article that describes it a bit further:
http://www.answers.com/topic/saint-eustace

-justin

 

[ED DELORGE]

Hello Justin, very good. You answered that question very well. I have asked other engravers in the past, but you are the first to enlighten me. I would have never guessed.

Thanks

Ed DeLorge

 

[JJ Roberts]

Ed & Justin,
The image you see on German firearms is Saint Hubert..you'll see the stag with just the cross, and St. Hubert you will see kneeling with a crossbow over his shoulder. Saint Eustace is from another culture.

Keep up the good work.

JJ Roberts
Manassas, VA

 

[Bill Brockway]

Ed and Justin - When I was in Germany in 1944-45, I was billeted for a few days in a German Baroque castle, Schloss Tussling, a few miles outside of Munich. One of the features of this castle was a huge ballroom on the second floor. The ceiling of the ballroom was decorated with a large landscape painting, showing St. Hubert (Hubertus in German) and the stag with the crufifix between his horns. In the background of the painting was the castle in which we were staying. If you look up St. Hubert (or Hubertus), you will find a reference to Saint Eustace also. It seems the legend of St. Hubert was adapted from an earlier legend of St Eustace. Hubert was a Belgian nobleman who frittered all his time away hunting. One day he was confronted by the stag with the cross, and a voice told him to change his ways, or he was going to hell. He not only changed his ways, he entered the priesthood and became a Bishop. Hubertus was born about 600 AD, and was known as the Saint of the Ardennes, where the Battle of the Bulge took place in WWII.

Bill

 

[ED DELORGE]

Hello Bill, Thanks for sharing that information. I have printed out all of the information that Justin linked to about St. Eustace and what you have said about St. Hubert and, I am going to save them in my book on German engraving.

By the way I was stationed in Germany from Nov. 73-June 76. I loved the country and the people. I wish I would have known more about firearms and would have visited some of the gun companys. I used to ride the train through Meintz frequently. I think Jagers is located there.

Thanks again.


Ed DeLorge

 

[KSnyder]

Gentlemen, just a small point but a point none the less. A cross with the figure of Jesus on it is a crucifix. Without the Christ it is a cross. The German air rifle club I belong to has this symbol , the stag & cross in our club emblem. Have not seen it as a crucifix.
Kent

 

[Bill Brockway]

Kurt -

You are, of course, correct in the definition of a crucifix. The stag with a cross or crucifix appears both ways, however, in ancient literature. If you will google up wikipedia (on-line encyclopedia) and search for St. Hubert, you will find a print from a 13th century English manuscript, showing St. Hubert and the stag, with the figure of Christ on a cross between the stag's horns. It also has a more complete description of who Hubert was.

Bill

 

[KSnyder]

Bill, yes , undoubtably, but I never dug that deep . Spent 18 mos. in Bavaria & most of the references of the symbols of St. Hubert had the stag with the "plain" cross. I have , somewhere, shooting pins with the stag & cross , awards for air rifle shooting. I'll have to dig them out again & check to see whether or not they are Crucifix or plain. thanks for your update.
btw, I un-corked a few bottles of Jagermeister in my day also.
cheers,
Kent

 

[coincutter]

This is good stuff to know
I tried it and it works

Now when I shoot my Beeman Springer I drink Jagermeister first and I get a much better grouping at 45 yards than ever before. I am going to try it with the next coin I do to see if it improves my detailing.

BTW who was the Patron Saint of Engravers?

 

[Marrinan]

John the Apostle and Thiemo are the Patron Saints of engravers according to http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/pst00257.htm
Fred

 

[Dave London]

And I thought it was Saint Starvation