Gold overlays

[Barry Lee Hands]

I suppose your vast experience makes you the judge of whats right or wrong. Hehe.
Dont worry my friend, none of my clients is likely to ask you to rework anything i have had my hand in.

 

[Brian Marshall]

I just do my best to produce a product that WILL - if the back findings are removed - meet the 925 quality.

And keep from having any more than my current share of cusswords directed at me when some poor soul unknowingly reheats a piece that I made.

Why not teach someone the correct skills to begin with? Let 'em decide for themselves later on - if they want to fudge?


B.

 

[jerrywh]

I have done what Berry said and also used the clips and weights and other spring loaded devises as well fixatives. I have also used casting investment to hold stuff in place while soldering other pieces. You just have to use all these different ideas according to the situation at hand. Doesn't matter if the previous soldered part melts as long as it doesn't move. There are also about four or five low temp solders that are available clear down to 165° F. The low temp stuff is not appropriate on Gold because the gold can alloy. Sometimes you just have to cheat.

 

[mdengraver]

I believe flow stop is yellow ochre. I used that in one of my classes and the teacher indicated as such. Extra hands is used to keep things in place while soldering what concerns me is the warning on the jar that says contact with this stuff may cause cancer. I know alot of things usedin the jewelry trade are known cancer agents such as fluxes, the use of asbestos soldering blocks which may no longer be sold?

 

[diandwill]

My old boss (RIP) was invited by the state department, in around 1980, to take a trip of craftsmen to Britain and Europe. He opted out of the France portion and continued on the train to Blegium.

All the other jewelers had to hand over their pieces to the French quality control. One poor man's items were stamped 14K and the piece they assayed was 13.5K. The French Govt melted all his wares into a large ingot and gave that back to him, admonishing him that under-karated and/or mis-stamped pieces would not be tolerated.

 

[peteb]

Brian:
Argentium sterling is 935 parts silver. If soldered with low temp solder and marked 925 would that satisfy your requirements?

 

[Roger B]

Brian:
Argentium sterling is 935 parts silver. If soldered with low temp solder and marked 925 would that satisfy your requirements?

My question is - "Why would you?" Wouldn't it be better just to learn to do the job properly. I have had to retip a cluster ring (could have been 10 claws) using the same grade solder - you don't have to change grades every time you solder a separate join. Would you really want to tackle a repair on a silver or gold piece put together by someone else only to find that the lead (substitute here low temp solder) previously used to put it together pitted the precious metal beyond repair.

Roger

 

[Brian Marshall]

No Barry, my age and "experience" though both longer and more varied than yours does not make me "right"...

Nice attempt at a diss though. Problem is that you need to aim that stuff at someone with an inflated ego to begin with. Otherwise no puncture occurs. Also helps if you actually know the person and have visited his/her shop.


We ARE going to disagree on this and here is my final reason why:

This forum is largely composed of beginners, newbies without the experience that they need to make a proper judgement call.

What you are saying is that it is perfectly alright to use lead solders on gold and silver. You make no note of experience required to do that...


I ran a trade shop for 25 years and over that time period saw hundreds of pieces where either a backyard mechanic or simply someone who wanted to get the job done in the cheapest/easiest way used lead, bismuth or tin solders on both sterling and karat golds.

If I did not catch that and completely remove all traces of those metals before using a high temp silver or karat gold solder to make the alteration or repair - the piece was doomed. People often brought me pieces from other trade shops that had made that mistake - to see if there was any way to salvage them.

During your "belt bucke days", you built new items that went out the door and were probably never seen again. So you assume that there is no harm taking the shortcut...


An analogy of your advice in my opinion (and I AM allowed to have one that differs from yours) is that by telling people on this forum that that particular shortcut is fine - you've just handed them a chambered automatic pistol to play Russian roulette with.


Brian

 

[jerrywh]

What Brian said about the burrs works well also. Silver smiths of old use to call them stitches You can shave them off after you solder and they can't be seen.
I want to add this. I do not believe in using soft solder on any jewelry object. It is illegal if sold for or as a Karat or sterling object. I do use anything that works on 18th century firearms but always prefer to go with the high temp solders. It takes a higher degree of skill to use the hard solders exclusively but there is a lot of satisfaction in knowing that you are capable.
I usually go with the high temp stuff even on guns because I love the challenge. Doing a patch box is all together different than a piece of jewelry. That is why I said that each job requires a different technique.
Tin solders are just as bad as lead when it comes to soldering gold or solver. They will alloy. Gold for gold and silver for silver. That's the general rule. Learn it . It's fun.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Peteb, they are not MY requirements!

They are a government(s) attempt at standardization, so that when a consumer buys something made of precious metals - those precious metals better be there - in the proportions stated. Having a higher quality than stated would never be penalized.


I work in quite a bit of 950 at this moment. Too soft for my liking but required for the job.

980 was our standard for silver products fabricated in Mexico. Both are stamped as such.


The Mexican products DID have to pass assaying in Taxco before being exported up here bearing the 980 stamp.

Was a PITA, but the playing field was pretty level. Pay the mordida and get your stuff back in a coupla days or not pay and wait a coupla weeks...


Brian

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

you've just handed them a chambered automatic pistol to play Russian roulette with.

As odd as that may sound... there actually is a semiautomatic revolver. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mateba_Autorevolver

 

[peteb]

Back in the late 70's and early 80's the standard in the jewelry chain industry was 13 1/2 kt marked as 14t. Some of that was because of the difficulty in assay but mostly because the chain manufacturer was using solder filled wire, an innovation that allowed for finer and stronger soldered chain. If your basis of quality was diluted by the quantity of solder the wire contained then as little as 13 1/2 kt was OK marked as 14kt. Avon was a big retailer of jewelry at that time and started insisting on strictly 14t quality. The whole costume jewelry industry therefore had to raise its standards.

 

[Omar Haltam]

Well this was supposed to be an easy sizing
Sterling silver no stones, and what do you know someone thought lets solder the 3 different bands together with lead
I am supposed to size it up 2 sizes, so now I am thinking I have to use the laser for it instead of silver soldering.
what great fun....

 

[Omar Haltam]

not that I am taking sides or anything, I have used lead solder before and still do but mainly for costume jewelry repairs.

 

[LVCIAN]

not that I am taking sides or anything, I have used lead solder before and still do but mainly for costume jewelry repairs.

I'm taking sides. Lead solder is the craft glue of metal smithing.

 

[silverchip]

You should be able to clean the lead off and silversolder them back together.

 

[Omar Haltam]

I was thinking to do that actually, little more work but will be a much better job . thanks for the tip silverchip

 

[Chapi]

I'm just a simple caveman, but Rio Grande carries three grades of silver solder-hard medium and easy. Wouldn't that just about cover any complications?

 

[Jkasal]

Just tack then In place with the laser welder and be done with it. Garbage in, garbage out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Roger B]

If I had access to a laser I would tack them together as has been mentioned and then cut out all the lead affected silver (throw this out) and re-shank. Don't forget to requote and charge accordingly - not every repairer will be able to do this job, as has been shown by the original repair.

Roger