Graver compatability between Lindsay and GRS handpieces and sharpening systems

[BWoodworker]

Terrapinstation 's recent post about sharpening brought up a point about graver compatibility between different graver brands hand pieces and sharpening setups.​

I am new to engraving. Specifically in my case I was planning on purchasing a Lindsay Graver and then I thought I would be able to pick and choose between using graver blanks from either GRS or Lindsay and that either sharpening system would be compatible. Seems this may not be correct becuase GRS is primarily round shank and Lindsay is setup for square? Is my understanding accurate or is there a good method for using them interchangeably?


Thank you in advance.

 

[RickDaggle]

The GRS collets are 3/32 or 1/8 round with two set screws to also hold square gravers. Idk about Lindsey hand pieces but I imagine they are the same.

 

[DaveAtWeirs]

They're technically compatible with each other but they fit better with their own setups.
Lindsay blanks are just square rods (sometimes with a taper added to one end), where as GRS do multiple shapes and the bit that fits in the collet can be round, square or rectangular.
The GRS blanks are not great for fitting into the lindsay sharpening templates but you can get em to work with some modifications. The Lindsay templates and blanks can be used with the GRS power hone. On average the GRS blanks are slightly smaller than the lindsay blanks but both fit in the other's collets. Annoyingly their collets are also different sizes so you can't swap em between handpieces.

If you getting a Lindsay setup I'd recommend just going for the Lindsay blanks as the whole set up is designed around them. Like, yea, you can get GRS ones to fit in a lindsay but there's no need to do it unless they're dramatically cheaper.

 

[EngraverHand]

Annoyingly their collets are also different sizes so you can't swap em between handpieces.

The QC collets fits both if you have the Lindsay with collet nose. I have one and they fit.. I prefer the one with the normal nose though, but..

 

[BWoodworker]

Thank you all for the information. This certainly adds an extra wrinkle to the new engravers choices.

So for those who use the lindsay system are you grinding Onglette gravers out of square stock or some of the other variety of gravers that GRS offeres that Lindsay does not or is that something you are giving up choosing one system over another?

 

[AJB]

l posted my “work around” for sharpening square gravers in an Apex type system a while back. That thread can be found at: https://engraverscafe.com/threads/ramblings-of-a-rookie-making-a-square-hole-collet.27681/

 

[T.G.III]

Started out with all GRS in '06, transitioned to Lindsay over the last few years.

GRS sold square blanks plus the QC series tool bits, the square bits that I have from GRS fit fine in the Lindsay sharpening templates, at this point I buy only Lindsay tool bits, that said he has the templates to sharpen nearly every point you would need, nothing is inexpensive any longer.

I grind my onglettes out of square blanks, with a Lindsay template.

Still have my GRS power hone with a Paul Hamler sharpening system, some GRS collets that are used in a home made hand held wriggle cutting tool from a 1 7/8" trailer hitch ball, and eight or so GRS QC tool bits that I have no way to sharpen.

Living the dream

 

[EngraverHand]

Thank you all for the information. This certainly adds an extra wrinkle to the new engravers choices.

So for those who use the lindsay system are you grinding Onglette gravers out of square stock or some of the other variety of gravers that GRS offeres that Lindsay does not or is that something you are giving up choosing one system over another?

I have never really used the GRS sharpening system, so I cant say much, but I have more Lindsay templates that I´m ever going to need.. including several onglette, which I use.. and there is many more.

I sharpen everything from square Lindsay blanks and some by hand.. I´m learning to high polish with a rotary tool and a diamond disk.

 

[BWoodworker]

I have never really used the GRS sharpening system, so I cant say much, but I have more Lindsay templates that I´m ever going to need.. including several onglette, which I use.. and there is many more.

I sharpen everything from square Lindsay blanks and some by hand.. I´m learning to high polish with a rotary tool and a diamond disk.

View attachment 52404

Thank you everyone you have been most informative.

 

[wild willie]

Terrapinstation 's recent post about sharpening brought up a point about graver compatibility between different graver brands hand pieces and sharpening setups.​

I am new to engraving. Specifically in my case I was planning on purchasing a Lindsay Graver and then I thought I would be able to pick and choose between using graver blanks from either GRS or Lindsay and that either sharpening system would be compatible. Seems this may not be correct becuase GRS is primarily round shank and Lindsay is setup for square? Is my understanding accurate or is there a good method for using them interchangeably?


Thank you in advance.

grs makes square graver in c-max and glen steel, lindsay has carbolt, m48 square. grs gravers are 7/16 shorter than lindsay. the lindsay classic comes with 3 or 4 gravers, one is a pre sharpened carbolt and is perfect for engraving jewelry, guns, knifes, etc. i prefer the square gravers, easy to set up to sharpen and resharpen. to start i would buy the lindsay classic hand piece and the complete set of diamond sharpening stones and holding fixture. this is the least expensive way to get started and will work for u forever and a day. the gravers are all hard steel and a regular grinding stone wont do the job . the initial shapeing of the graver takes the longest but once shaped its easy to resharpen. a power hone of any kind will speed the shapeing but is a big investment. all steve offers are designed to work together, including his gravers, which are longer than grs which changes all the angles of the gravers. steve lindsays carbolt graver is just as good if not better than grs c- max gravers and less work to set up.

 

[BWoodworker]

to start i would buy the lindsay classic hand piece and the complete set of diamond sharpening stones and holding fixture.

Steve recommended the Classic to me in an email as well. I already have a rather complete set of DMT diamond stones(as well as oilstones a grinder etc) from my woodworking. Chisels, gouges, and planes have to get sharp somehow.

OTOH a separate setup for engraving has some advantages.

How often does one go back to the stones when engraving in brass? When I am woodworking I will regularly touch up an edge on a chisel every few minutes if I am doing something delicate. If chopping mortises I go a lot longer. I know the answer is it depends but is there a ballpark? 3 minutes 30 minutes 2 hrs? Trying to figure out if a power hone is a worthwhile priority for me(if I was a full time engraver I am sure it would be)

Thank you all you have been very helpful.

 

[BWoodworker]

I have never really used the GRS sharpening system, so I cant say much, but I have more Lindsay templates that I´m ever going to need.. including several onglette, which I use.. and there is many more.

I sharpen everything from square Lindsay blanks and some by hand.. I´m learning to high polish with a rotary tool and a diamond disk.

View attachment 52404

That's a classy setup right there. Thanks for your input.

 

[BWoodworker]

Paul Hamler sharpening system,

Seems he made a bunch of things in the engraving world as well. huh. Is his system still for sale?

 

[T.G.III]

Doubt it, I bought mine second hand many years ago as it was the best of both worlds, set up to do the initial Lindsay grinds (96* 116* 123* parallel heel) with interchangeable templates as well with degree graduations to cut most any configuration of oddball grind as needed.

I still use my power hone to do initial rough-in on the various blanks using the Lindsay templates as well as the Hamler fixture for traditional flats with a radius heel for lettering etc.

I can cut a ton of copper, brass, silver, etc and go forever it seems without touch up, that said just finished cutting a 304 stainless flask and was literally touching up at about every inch and a half or less of cutting.

I'm using a Palm Control, so there is some time lost swapping the tool bit around for sharpening as I'm using the traditional nose, the GRS Apex system seems to be faster as it uses the QC collets.

Being a hobbyist I'm not in a huge hurry.

 

[EngraverHand]

A classic can do it all.. I have several classics, PalmControl, Chasing Air Graver, Classic with collet nose, a Nitro.. but a normal classic would be my first choice if I only had to choose one. They’re great and you only need a small compressor. They don’t use much air..

Anyway, a powerhone is great to have when you sharpen up your gravers, but I never use a powerhone for touching up and especially never on the heel..

I’m mostly engraving in steel, but anyhow you want your gravers to be sharp at all times.. sometimes I can engrave for a few minutes before I need to touch up, sometimes 30 minutes, sometimes… Making your setup as stable as possible with as little vibration as possible will help to prevent tiny tiny tip breaks.. but they will get dull and need touch ups.

If I’m doing a thicker outline, removing some background and stuff like that I can get a little more lazy about it, but trying fine shading or details, a lot more often..

Even if I’m not sure, just make it a habit to touch up. It’s a lot less work than fixing a bad mistake..

If you got the money, get a powerhone, but it would not be my first priority.. I would have put that money into a better microscope (if you’re planning to get a microscope) or a better vise, a better and more stable vise stand.. things like that. Then I would put money into a powerhone..

 

[Leland Davis]

You mentioned your woodworking. Do you have a drill press? A very serviceable power hone can be done on a drill press. There are posts on this site that show how.

 

[BWoodworker]

You mentioned your woodworking. Do you have a drill press? A very serviceable power hone can be done on a drill press. There are posts on this site that show how.

I do. So that's certainly an option, thank you. Especially if thats not something I need more than occasionally to reshape or to initially shape an edge.

If you got the money, get a powerhone, but it would not be my first priority.. I would have put that money into a better microscope (if you’re planning to get a microscope) or a better vise, a better and more stable vise stand.. things like that. Then I would put money into a powerhone..

That's solid advise thank you. And yes I would love to get a microscope especially since I want to do a lot of my work at a small scale(near jewelry size). Of course I want to do all sorts of things but thats the primary desire. For now I will have to stick with the optivisor and the deltal loupes I have from doing marquetry and other shenanigans.

The first thing I got was a GRS magnablock I should be set on a vise for a while. Already learned you can't work on what you can hold from woodworking. So probably graver them microscope.

I am planning on overbuilding an engraving/metal bench. Nice thing about being a woodworker making a heavy duty bench for engraving I already have the requirements for that. Now I will have some design questions down the road for that hopefully you all will have some input on engraving benches.

 

[mtlctr]

Learn to sharpen by hand, spend the leftover cash on beer.

 

[BWoodworker]

Learn to sharpen by hand, spend the leftover cash on beer.

Fortunately I rarely drink. So I can just buy more tools, materials and education.