Hand engrave a 1690s english verge fusee pocket watch dial

[Fuseelicious]

Many thanks for having me in your forum. I have never engraved before but I wish to engrave a silver dial chapter ring for my circa year 1690 46mm diameter English verge fusee pocket watch. I need some help to find a reference book to get me started and or a guru/mentor for a little guidance please? I will add some photos later of what I am trying to achieve.

 

[Aventuraal]

Are you looking for a pattern book or a how-to?

 

[Fuseelicious]

Really a how to. Hoping there is a book to set me in the right direction. It will involve getting a template or pattern onto some solid silver plate that is either flat or slightly domed. Either way the end result probably domed. Then remove material to leave elevated Roman numerals and some basic patterns.

 

[monk]

you've got a steep hill to climb to acheive your goal. good luck

 

[Fuseelicious]

See below example dial pics.

 

[Adder]

you've got a steep hill to climb to acheive your goal. good luck

I`m with Monk here.

Maybe you can try to contact Roger Ronnie. He is an exellent machinist, engraver and also repairs and build old watchmaker tools Roger L. Ronnie - The Miniature Engineering Craftsmanship Museum
I`m not sure, but I don`t think he has a profile in this forum, but he have a profile in FB.

Jørn-Ove

 

[Fuseelicious]

Thank you guys. A lead like this is hopefully all I need to get me going in the right direction. I will look him up.

 

[ByrnBucks]

Welcome Fuseelicious, This is a wonderful place to find information and guidance in the world of engraving. Engraving is also an amazing art form to dive head first into and never look back.

That being said the task you seek to achieve seems not only to be a monumental one but also an incredibly improbable goal to set for ones first endeavor.

I in no way want this to come across as negative or discouraging. Just be aware that after a few years of practice and Im guessing 500 hours of graver in hand working, I myself wouldn’t try such a project yet dare I guess for another year or two.

Glad to have you in the group and cant wait to see some of your work once you get ready to do some showing. Have a great week.
BB

 

[Fuseelicious]

Thankyou for your frankness BB. In addition to the previous responses your input is most welcome. It does not surprise me what you are saying is true and correct. If it were straight forward and just a matter of being careful on the tools then engraving would never have diminished in popularity and common usage as it has. I suppose my expectations were that it might take a couple of years to work up to a point of comparative success. It also does not surprise me that I have understated this in my own mind.

Bearing in mind my position of significant ignorance in the ways and skills of a master engraver perhaps you could enlighten me further if there was a way of short cutting achieving straight edges for the long sides of the Roman numerals? For example can steel numeral templates be used as a "fence" to lean the edge of the graver on as one removes material? Or is it common to remove material to the best you can to a scribed line then finishing with a file edge or the like to achieve the best end result? At this stage I would be setting my sights on the chapter ring only, not the centre ring. I intend to make the centre ring with a coin from the period the watch was made.

 

[DaveAtWeirs]

Unfortunately you can't use templates or steel fences as the graver would either cut into them or get caught on them or, more likely, they'd slip. engraving takes quite a bit of force.

I think what may be happening here is a sort of Dunning-Kruger effect, which means (and I say this with absolutely no disrespect) you don't realize how much you don't know because of how much you don't know. It's one of those strange things human do. It's not a failing on your part, you're just new to the world of hand engraving and don't fully grasp the amount of work, practice and skill something like that would take to do. Sure, it's not a masterwork level engraving, but even cutting a circle or straight light is actually surprisingly difficult and can take a long time to be able to do. This is probably why you're not getting a lot of responses because asking to be taught how to do something like that is actually quite an undertaking and would take anywhere from a few months to years to get you to that level depending on how much time you were able to put into it.

All that said, if you really want to do it yourself you've got two paths open to you. First would be that you could look into etching it, this would give a similar result to what is there already but not exactly the same. The second option would be to just learn hand engraving. It isn't something you'd be able to just learn one or two things which would allow you to do it, a dial like that actually requires multiple different techniques and skills that are, unfortunately, hard earned through training, experience and most of all practice. (not to mention you'd need to get the tools and equipment too)

I really really don't want to put you off, I think if you've got an interest in it you should absolutely give it a go. That's what I did and now it's my full time job. But be aware that it is a bit of an undertaking and will take time and investment.

 

[Fuseelicious]

Thank you DaveatWeirs and again I appreciate your frankness and taking it all on board. Gaining a much deeper appreciation of the challenge to come. I already have a few tools so I will try doing some basic work first to test my resolve as much as anything.

 

[DaveAtWeirs]

No worries, sorry if it came across as harsh or mean, it wasn't intended.

Glad you're not discouraged! Please do give it a go, it's so rewarding to be able to do something like that, not to mention that it deepens your understanding and allows you to appreciate masterwork engravings at a whole new level

 

[Fuseelicious]

No offence taken at all. I call myself a realist and I prefer to deal with things as they are and not as I hope them to be. So all good, I'll give it a go and see how reality deals with me.

 

[ByrnBucks]

Good evening, A suggestion to get you started on your wonderful journey is a DVD or “download/stream” by our Benevolent dictator Sam Alfano.
He has many different courses available, one of which is a beginner introduction to engraving, another being a full course on lettering including Roman numerals.
The price of these DVDs are quite deceiving as at a glance appear to be expensive but the information and knowledge contained within is worth ten fold.Hope you have a wonderful day. BB

 

[Fuseelicious]

Thank you BB. I will check them out. Appreciated.