Hand Engraving Definition

[deedubbya]

I have been working in the trade for 25 plus years and from time to time I'm asked by different award shops to help them out, I don't mind the extra work but one shop in patricular insists on calling the jobs we do on the New Hermes - Hand Engraving - there theory is that it is all done by hand???? This burns my butt something fierce, I'm open to suggestions as to how to approach them on the topic, all in put welcome.

 

[Leonardo]

Hi deedubbya!
Well... I have been working with engraving machines (computerized) for 10 years, so I think that I can tell you something about...
I cannot understand how someone can call this kind of job "hand engraving". It is true that the set up of a work is by hand (cutting the plate, positioning, design in the computer, etc.) but the machine makes the engraving itself. At last all the thing that we do all the time are made with our hands also pushing the GO button on the machine... LOL. But after that, the machine makes all the engraving alone. One irrefutable probe is that you can leave the machine unattended doing the job.
Cheers,
Leonardo

 

[Jim Sackett]

Hello Dave

A couple years ago I purchased a good sized Hermes Engraving machine from a jeweler who was retiring. To operate it I take the designated brass font and slide the letters side by side to spell out the copy. I mark the letter combinations that need special attention 'AT PA WA ' need to be pulled under a tad to get proper letter spacing. Sometimes two letters will need to be separated a bit for the same reason.

With the piece locked in the vice I measure the position of the copy. And set the size. When all checks out I take the stiles and trace each brass letter with my right hand. Lowering the cutter or diamond point onto the piece with my left hand. This takes considerable skill and coordination.

When the piece is engraved I might have to darken the letters especially on plaques. This again requires skill and know how. All of the above mentioned is done by hand. May be we should call it Hand Machine Engraving. I know the process requires much more the typing a copy into a computer, pushing a button and wallah an engraved plate.

I am a wanna be hand engraver also and do a lot of practice plates to learn the techniques. If you are interested in my work go to jimsackettsengravingplus.com

Jim Sackett

 

[Haraga.com]

names

I don't think you can change the words that people use to describe things. I think what a person should do is change what is commonly called "hand engraved". For example, if the engraving is done without mechanical assistance then maybe call it something like "freehand engraved".

 

[sam]

If someone insists in calling work done with a New Hermes "hand engraving" then I can only assume they're wanting it to be something it's not, unless they really don't know the difference.

 

[jimzim75]

I would say your customer can tell his clients anything he wishes. In the big picture it will not make
much difference. Until hand engraver has his engraving published where the public can see and under
stand that it is not derived from a template.

If your working from a template or program. You are not hand engraving in the common sense of the word.
Where it would get tricky is if a hand engraver goes in and adds a element to that work.

We as hand engravers need to make the public aware that they are getting a limited and valued service.
The middle class jewellery buying public that barely has an idea what the difference between a
diamond and Cubic Zirconium are.

Is not really be to clear on the difference between a finely engraved inscription and something produce
with a 100 ton press, is. They been confused since the dawn of the industrial revolution back in the 1800.

I'm going to be writing a article for "Jewellery Business" here in Canada on hand engraving to tell the
jewellery retailers that hand engraving is alive and thriving. Rumors that it went
the way of the Dodo bird are not true. We have vibrant and dynamic art form.

We have a superior product to sell here, so tell the world. Other wise what the jeweller said of
his New Hermes engraving being hand engraving may become quite true.

 

[sam]

You can tell them that the difference between true hand engraving and New Hermes machine engraving is the same difference between chicken salad and chicken do-do.

 

[Jim Sackett]

Hi Sam,

I agree with what you say. I think what we are talking about is three diferent processes. The end results of each will stand alone and be judged on its own beauty, functionality and usefulness. Hand engraving will always be on top.

Jim Sackett

 

[jimzim75]

Sam, your a funny guy! LOL LOL

 

[Steve Adams]

I would like to comment on this. It is from a die engravers view, but I think it is still relevant. I spent the first five years engraving steel dies ( in the negative ) with a hammer and chisel. At the time with my limited knowledge, this job was called being a "Hand Die Cutter" or engraver if you prefer. Occasionally I would be required to hand engrave in the positive, still with hammer and chisel. Both of these methods are hand engraving. It was not until I moved to the East Coast that I got another definition of hand die engraving. They considered using a pantograph to assist in engraving the die still to be hand die engraving, and using a reduction lathe from a model not hand die engraving. While true you have to hand engrave a template for assisting in 3D work on the pantograph, you physically have to sit at the machine, you have to use both hands to trace the pattern and lower and raise the cutter, and there is a certain amount of skill involved, I still don't think this part of the job is hand die engraving. It is not until I get to the bench where a tool becomes one with my hands that I consider this hand engraving.

 

[Christopher Malouf]

When I think of true hand engraving, I think about a dusty, 19th century shop where there's a guy seated by the window using the sunlight to illuminate his hammer and chisel work. No electricity, no machines, no computers. That's a place I'd like to be.

Air assist stretches that purist definition a bit but it is still the artisan's hand that is guiding the cutting tool as he/she pours in the contents of his/her heart along with some sweat and sometimes some blood.

To call anything else "hand" engraving perpetrates a fraud. I see stuff called "hand chased" which is basically laser engraved then given a go-over to make it look hand engraved. Burns my butt too.

 

[vanknife]

What comes to my mind is, am I writing this replay or am I typing this reply and if I would print it? It is definitely not hand written.??

My 2 cents

Cheers

"VAN"

 

[Leonardo]

Yes Van, it is definitely not hand written. You are the author, of course, but the difference is in the media to have it written or, to better say, printed.
Printed on the monitor or on the paper or anywhere. We write by hand.
“Write: to make marks that represent letters or words by using a tool held in the hand, especially with a pen or pencil on paper.â€￾ (Taken from the Longman)
Soooo… we could say (paraphrasing):
“Hand Engraving: to make marks that represent letters or words or drawings by using a tool held in the hand, especially with a chisel or any surface.â€￾
Do you like it?
Cheers,
Leonardo

 

[Ray Cover]

My definition of hand engraving is simple.

If the artist brain and eye are working together to control the tool being held in the artist hand it is hand work. I think this definition applies no matter what field or media you are working in.

When that link between the eye seeing, the brain interpreting and signaling to the hand holding the tool is broken it ceases to be hand work.

Way too often this is done as a marketing gimmick. People are willing to lie to make a buck. David Broadwell pointed out to me years ago that this is done in the fountain pen market all the time. A certain companies pen may be marketed as "hand made" when all the parts were turned on CNC machines. When called on it the common answer is a man's hand loaded the material into the CNC machine.

It's nothing short of pure fraud in my opinion.

Ray

 

[Christopher Malouf]

My definition of hand engraving is simple.

If the artist brain and eye are working together to control the tool being held in the artist hand it is hand work. I think this definition applies no matter what field or media you are working in.

When that link between the eye seeing, the brain interpreting and signaling to the hand holding the tool is broken it ceases to be hand work.

Way too often this is done as a marketing gimmick. People are willing to lie to make a buck. David Broadwell pointed out to me years ago that this is done in the fountain pen market all the time. A certain companies pen may be marketed as "hand made" when all the parts were turned on CNC machines. When called on it the common answer is a man's hand loaded the material into the CNC machine.

It's nothing short of pure fraud in my opinion.
Ray

Well said Ray. For those that have fallen victim to the gimmick..... a little re-education is what it comes down to. Even sales folks in some of the sporting shops. It has to be a real gentle approach because you can really ruin someone's day when they show you something that's engraved and proudly say: "The engraver that did this sure is talented." and what they're showing you is something laser etched. I try to remember to put a practice plate in my pocket. Being the socially challenged hermit that I am ... sometimes I will just say it looks great and move on.

 

[ED DELORGE]

Hello Dave, the first thing that comes to my mine is the book Engraving on Precious Metals in which the authors make the major distinction, that is in what the customer should be told, is the difference in the cost between machine engraved and the much more expensive hand engraved.

This is what should be emphasized.

 

[monk]

sam : didn't that make it thru your spell checker ? or did abigail make you change that word ??

 

[jimzim75]

I think what really annoys me is when I talk to magazine advertising people that have jeweller magazines.
They want me to advertise so they can make money and keep their revenue up. Since there throughly
familiar with the jewelery industry and all the new advances it's made.

They politely ask the second question every time, isn't hand engraving dead. I suppose because the ratio
of hand engraving shops to jewellery shops is about 1000 to 1 in Canada at least. My first thought is alway
then why are you asking me to advertise.

Instead I try to keep it positive and tell them about Reno being the Academy Awards of Engraving.
I lay the fact that now use computers to help do design. That we use power assist tools that make us
quicker. That we have forums to help teach each other. That number of people on the forums is rising.

Thus the numbers of engraver is rising and be default the number of great engravers is rising.
Engraving is on a growth pattern and Jewellery is on the decline in North America.

What I try to indicate, that if your not including engraving skills into your shop, your business is going to
suffer. They have deem to rename these skills as something else and usually only think engravers
as doing letter engraving.

If your using a graver to cut a wax for casting,then your engraving.
If your using a graver to do bright cutting while setting, then your engraving.
If your using a graver to add patter to ring or any piece of jewellery. Then your engraving.
Definitely if you engraving a die in the reverse to produce jewellry parts. Absolutely your engraving.

Is hand engraving dieing?..........."Hardly".
It happen to be the great equalizer.

One guy with a bench and hand tools can still turn out a comparable produce to a CNC driven wax cutter.
It may take him longer but when the wax goes to the rubber mold. The difference stops right there.
The guy with best designs Wins.

Pro shops use everything they have access to. In house of farmed out. This I think simple makes us smart
business men. I have a pantograph and rubber molds to make copies. If there is a service offered that
makes part of the job easier, I'll use it. Having to make a single platinum head isn't cost officiant.

Yesterday I was informed that Hoover and Strong doesn't have a 4 claw platinum head in that size, and
the minimum order for the this $119.00 part was 100 heads. So I'm making a 4 claw head. Oh boy.
That's what custom design shops do, and not having engraving as a integral part would be silly.

Talk to ya later,
Jim

 

[Ron Smith]

There was a time when a man did his work with north light, no electricity, and total hand power. This used to be called hand engraving and there was no controversy about it, no doubt. It was with the advent of electricity and machines that the term began to get confused, so the question is a modern one, not always considering the honest truth, but satisfying everyones or someones opinion of the truth.........

If I built a house with only a hand saw, without electricity and the simplest tools would you say that is by hand? If you did it that way you wouldn't be able to compete in todays economy, and it would only be when you decided to do it that way that you would readily see the difference, which means that you would have to define it differently. You would then have definate opinions about hand work and machine work, but we humans want to manipulate the truth sometimes to satisfy our insecurities, or make it match our personal opinions, do we not?

So we can corrupt the meaning of anything to spare peoples feelings if we want to, but up until there was electricity, you couldn't do it any other way, or define it any other way.

Now having said all of that, I think the original definition would be correct, but that is just my "opinion" which is not worth any more than anyone elses, except or unless it happens to be accurate and not influenced by human biases. I think the original meaning of the words "hand engraving" would be the criteria for judging whether something is the purist explaination of the word, uncorrupted by human opinion, or personal, self interest biases.

People often define things to sooth their egos, perpetuate self worth and importance, or to defraud someone for money's sake, wouldn"t you agree? So I think you have to define the word with the purist of motives in order for it to be accurate and honest, ................but of course, I could be wrong, but then I don't require you to believe me either, that is your choice...............I personally believe there is only one truth. The rest is conjecture.

I wonder if this will always be a matter unsolved, or if we approached it from a non-human standpoint, would we find the answer? I think it is wrong to decieve people, so I make it a very important task to find the truth, as truth is the only thing that really matters. Truth is the salvation of mankind and eternal life, deciept on the other hand only lives for a short time and is eventually overidden by the truth whether it is intentional or not.

This is pretty hard and straightforward, and I apologize if I have offended anyone. It is not my intention.

The universe would not function without accuracy. Neither would the continuance of life, nor would your engraving, so just how important is accuracy? I think it is essential for successful human evolution, and opinions are at the very roots of war. Something or anything will only stand the test of time, if it is "on the mark" and agreeable with the greater universal principals of continuing existence.

Ain't human nature something??

And that is my two cents on the subject for whatever it is worth.......;^)
Forward! and the really important thing is engraving is alive and well. Educate educate educate. That is the ticket.

One thing you cannot deny. People who get to observe what you do are very invious and in awe of your talents, but don't have what it takes to do it themselves. Be very proud of your achievements on whatever level. You are blessed to have this beautiful means of expression.............I raise my glass to you all.
Ron S