Hand operated Rolling Mills

[Doc Mark]

Two questions. Has anyone any familiarity with the less expensive rolling mills being made in India? There are a number of them on Ebay for $250 or less. Second question, I have some old Canadian Maple Leafs, aren't these 24 k gold? I know Barry Lee Hands uses them to make thin gold sheets for his inlays, but I was uncertain as to their karat content. At the current cost of gold, it would be cheaper for me to use the coins I already have, than to sell them and try to buy new milled wire and sheet gold. Plus I would get a new tool Does anyone else go to the trouble of "rollin' their own"?

"Inquiring minds want to know."

Thanks,

Mark

 

[Keith]

I bought one and when it arrived the casting was broken. They sent a whole new one out and it has been good for about 5 years now. I use the canadian maple leafs. They are 24 kt. If you get the rolling mill buy the one that has different rollers,and makes wire. I roll the coin and then take the flattened coin and cut a piece of coin with a pair of metal shears. then I roll on the mill into a smaller wire and then pull through a draw plate. It works good and I have a ton of wire from 1 coin.
Good Luck
Keith

 

[Doc Mark]

Thanks Keith,

That's exactly what I want to do. Make my own sheet and wire. I already have a good carbide draw plate. So if I can roll some thicker wire with the mill, then making whatever gauge wire I need should not be that difficult, just time consuming. Since I'm not trying to make a living on my engraving (I'd starve!!), I have the luxury of time.

Thanks again,

Mark

 

[Tim Wells]

Those maple leaf coins are 99.999% pure, the Canadian mint pride themselves on the purity of their coinage.

I am in the market for one of those mills also. I looked at the one Harbor Freight sells and it looks like it only has one wire roller rather than a pair so it will roll out a "D" shaped wire rather than a round one. Guess I'll keep looking...

 

[Keith]

I do it as a hobby and have used the mill very little. When you roll the coin out you have to anneal the coin after a couple of sizes down. You will see the edges cracking.
I have even just cut off a piece of soft gold with a pair of scissors and inlaid into a hobo nickel.
Keith

 

[Mike Cirelli]

I'm not so sure it is more economical to use Krugerrands. You may be better off selling them especially if they are desirable dates. Plus the Krugerrand is 22k the coins weigh a little more than the designated gold weight because a small amount of alloy is added. Also check the jewelry supply companies sometimes they run specials on a certain mill. Check out PEPE tools if your looking for an inexpensive one.

If your going to get a mill check out the tutorial Sam put together of me making wire. I think it's more economical to purchase an ounce or so of casting grain. I guess that is if you have a torch sorry. But if you do all you need is an adjustable ingot mold.

 

[Keith]

I got mine at american jewelry supply in east brunswick nj. The mill I got was made in India.

Tim, The one I have rolls a "D" shaped wire like you said and then I thin the end of the gold out and pull through a draw plate. It also has 2 pattern rollers, I tried rolling out a silver dime and it worked pretty cool, but you can still see it was a dime.
If you dont want to buy a mill stand by the train tracks..... .
Keith

 

[BrianPowley]

Mark, I have one of those Ebay specials. I works just great. It is the 3" model (green & made in India) and came with 5 rolls...Mine was around $185.00 + $50.00 shipping.

I use it for all of the stuff everyone else here has commented on including milling down gold and silver for damascening and making sheet material for multi-color inlay.

And for those of you "out there" looking for copper sheeting, you could probably use a 1981 ,or earlier, penny and roll it out to the desired thickness. (1981 or earlier pennies are all copper)
I rolled a penny down to 0.001"----it was 9 inches long!

 

[Doc Mark]

Brian,

The mill you describe is the same as the one I was considering. Green, with 5 different rollers. For the number of times I would need it, it should hold-up fine. One question though, to what color do you heat the gold, to simply anneal it but not melt it?

I also have some .999 fine silver bullion coins. Will one of these mills make a smooth enough sheet that you could cut out a bracelet to engrave? Or would there be "ripples" in the surface?

Mike,

I don't have Krugerrands, I have .9999 fine Maple Leafs. But, I did review your tutorial on wire making. It really is helpful. I do have a torch set-up, just have to get a new crucible.

Thanks for all your quick responses.

Mark

 

[BrianPowley]

Mark, you can anneal gold just by holding it over the flame of an alcohol lamp.
It doesn't have to be cherry red, just pretty darn warm.

I can't say how well rolling a coin to make a bracelet will work, I've never attempted anything like that.
In my opinion,as expensive as silver has gotten, it is still cheap enough to buy it in sheet form and just cut it for the bracelet....a whole lot less hassle, but that's just me.

And, for what it's worth, I've never seen any blemishes or ripples in anything I've rolled flat with it.

 

[Tom Curran]

Keith, you had better wear goggles if you want a train to flatten your coins. With all that pressure, the coin can squirt out from the wheels like a watermelon seed between your fingers.

 

[qndrgnsdd]

If you put your maple leaf on the train track it will stick to the wheels of the train and go bye-bye. You do not need to anneal pure gold just let it rest for a couple of hours, and it will soften up all by its self. the same is true for pure silver, of course if you are in a hurry heat it up you're not going to hurt it. If you have kruggerands trade them in for eagles, maple leafs or pandas all of which are pure gold. Kruggerands are a screwey alloy 22.6 Karat if I remember right, not pure gold even though they contain an ounce of pure gold. We sometimes had to use them to alloy down to 14K, which really exercised the old algebra muscle!...Owen
www.walkergoldsmiths.com

 

[Keith]

The train part was just a joke.I engrave and carve hobo nickels.... When we were kids we did the penny deal and it took a while to find the squished pennies by the tracks.
Just having fun. Keith
www.keithpedersen.com

 

[metalartz]

hi
rolling the metal down in a rolling mill will work hardens it. For Sterling silver and 14k, 18k gold you roll the metal down 1/3 the thickness and then anneal or it will start to crack. 24k gold you can roll down more as it's a softer metal. I've never heard of resting pure silver or gold to get it soft, and don't know how time without heat could change the crystalline structure of a metal. As the gold gets thinner it will take less heat to anneal the sheet so be careful not to melt it, when it's like tin foil a match if be able to anneal it.

hope this is of some help

david

 

[TallGary]

For what it's worth, Krugerrands and Eagles have a very similar gold fineness 0.9167 and 0.916 respectively. Maple Leafs are 0.9999 fine. The coins are a little work hardened from being struck in the coining process. If you want to go very far with the initial passes, I suggest annealing before beginning the rolling process.

A link to pricing -- click the coin name for additional info:
http://www.usagold.com/gold/price.html

I use one of the "green machines" with no problem rolling maple leaf 1/10th ounce coins into sheet.

Gary

 

[Debbie Shedden]

Canadian gold coins

I just read a report the other day that told the purity of gold coins around the world and they are all .999 fine except the Canadian which are .9999 fine. I will try to find where I read it and give you a heads up on it.
debbie