Interesting hand punched design on bronze box.

Guido.

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Feb 20, 2021
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Hi Members

I would be interested to know if anyone has seen this method of decoration before?
It is on the base of this ornate may be French (has been suggested may be Austro Hungarian ) Bronze box.
I have calculated (460 per sq inch) 7x4" =12000-13000 circles.

The president of the Society of Ornamental Turners, Peter T Johnson, has termed the pattern "snail Trails"

I feel the pattern may help me discover the maker,it may have been a type of signature of his?

At this stage my feeling is the maker may have been Jean Francois Vervelle 1804-1856.
There are some letters on the side J VE(L?) That may be a signature. french signiture.jpg 5.JPG french signiture.jpg 13.JPG sig2.JPG sig 1.jpg IMG_6806.JPG IMG_6808.JPG IMG_6798.JPG IMG_6801.JPG


It also has punch marks different shapes under the brown enamel section ,to look like leather.

I realise it is not engraving ,I hope it is okay to post here.
 

mitch

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Yes, Guido, this is exactly the sort of thing we love to see here in the Cafe! Thanks for posting it. That's a very interesting piece, but I'm afraid I don't know much about it.
 

BCan

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This box is similar to some Art Nouveau Jewelry Caskets (also called trinket boxes) I’ve seen. Once, at a shop in New York, I saw one which also had miniscule piercings on the flat metal surfaces of the bottom. The dealer who had it told me that the piercings were made to allow the box to ‘breathe,’ since jewelry was susceptible to moisture from the wearer. But who knows, it might just have been a good sales pitch.

There are a few examples of similar boxes at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York and a search of their catalog may be helpful. Some of these seem to have been done exclusively in metal while others were a combination of exotic woods and bronze. The very ornate ones (bordering on gaudy in my humble opinion), always seem to be French or Italian. No matter what, they are wonderful examples of fine craftsmanship. Good luck on your quest.
 

monk

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i know nothing of this, other than it is quite a beautiful piece to behold.
 

Guido.

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Feb 20, 2021
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Hi Members
Many thanks for all your great comments, researching my items is part of the fun of collecting(boxes mainly)

Members may find this one interesting ,very fine repousse work ,not engraving.

This one is marked for Hermann Ratzersdorfer (1843-1881) 1862 Vienna.
I thought it would be an interesting one for my collection.

Regards Guido. IMG_6690 (640x480).jpg IMG_6750 (640x480) (2).jpg IMG_6737 (640x480) (4).jpg IMG_6745 (640x480) (2).jpg Photo 02-03-2021, 16 09 26-2 (480x640) (3).jpg IMG_6690 (640x480).jpg IMG_6750 (640x480) (2).jpg IMG_6737 (640x480) (4).jpg IMG_6745 (640x480) (2).jpg Photo 02-03-2021, 16 09 26-2 (480x640) (3).jpg
 

Guido.

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Feb 20, 2021
Messages
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This box is similar to some Art Nouveau Jewelry Caskets (also called trinket boxes) I’ve seen. Once, at a shop in New York, I saw one which also had miniscule piercings on the flat metal surfaces of the bottom. The dealer who had it told me that the piercings were made to allow the box to ‘breathe,’ since jewelry was susceptible to moisture from the wearer. But who knows, it might just have been a good sales pitch.

There are a few examples of similar boxes at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York and a search of their catalog may be helpful. Some of these seem to have been done exclusively in metal while others were a combination of exotic woods and bronze. The very ornate ones (bordering on gaudy in my humble opinion), always seem to be French or Italian. No matter what, they are wonderful examples of fine craftsmanship. Good luck on your quest.
Hello many thanks for your comments BCan.

I have looked on their site ,did not see anything similar.

Although I did come across this one that sold a Bonhams,that has the brown enamel background and similar interior ,and square section hole ,for locking catch.

Regards Guido. oudry 1.JPG oudry 4.JPG oudry 2.JPG IMG_6801.JPG IMG_6806.JPG
 

BCan

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Guido,

I apologize for not being clear, the jewelry caskets I viewed were at the Metropolitan Museum and that was back in 1998.

Here are links to some pieces from the house of Vervelle in which the father; Jean Francois Vervelle, (not to be confused with the French military engineer of a similar name), was primarily working in exotic wooden furniture and repousse’ bronze however he did make a few exceptional boxes and finished some of his detail work with gravers. There are a very few examples of jewelry caskets that he made floating around, and they fetch in the thousands. The family carries on his work in France to this day. Have fun with your research.

Links from Google.fr. (France)

https://www.adrianalan.com/artist-detail/241894/maison-vervelle-audot-successeur

http://marqueterie-boulle-napoleon....oulle-marquetry-napoleon-iii-period-19th.html
 

Guido.

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Feb 20, 2021
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Hi BCan
Many thanks for your reply and info,
I did know most of what you have posted,This is the main information that comes up on the company.
To my surprise I may be wrong on Vervelle (hope not)

I have had an opinion from The Louvre in Paris, that in their opinion my box is not French (a bit of a shock)
Unfortunately they did not suggest what other country it may have been made in.
And they do not think it is a signature(the engraved letters ,J.Ve orJ.Vel) that I have attached,

I will let members give me their opinion if it is a signature or not. Looks like one to me.

Regards Guido.
sig 1.jpg sig 4.JPG sig3.jpg sig 6.JPG sig 7.jpg sig2.JPG
 

Guido.

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Sorry forgot to say on previous post ,if it is not a signature what is it?

It seems it was put there for some reason.

Thanks again BCan for the info and links.

Regards Guido.
 

BCan

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Hello Guido,
I appreciate your kind words. It certainly looks like a signature. In my humble experience, engravers tend to include their signatures in a subtle manner whereas sculptors and other artists flamboyantly place them in more conspicuous ways, thus lending it to being a signed piece. If you're really serious about authentication, I'm sure that one of the larger auction houses like Christie's or Sotheby's could have a look. Unfortunately, they charge a fee for this. Wishing you continued fun in your quest.
B
 
Last edited:

Guido.

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Feb 20, 2021
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Hello B
Again thanks for your comments,that's great I have at least one person agrees with me that it is a signature.

I feel that Auction houses in general are a bit of a waste of time,with these type of questions,in my opinion they are usually dismissive of these lower end items,and are quite lazy about helping out.
I still feel the clue to the maker ,will be in the unusual stamped base, I will keep looking, something may come up one day. the letters J.Ve (L?) are interesting ,not sure how many makers names may start with the letter Ve.
I will be sticking to Vevelle until I find further info.
Regards Guido.
 

mitch

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It certainly looks like a signature of some sort, but it certainly was done in an odd place if that's what it is. Why wouldn't a signature be a bit lower and to the right, in the relatively smooth area?
 

Guido.

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Messages
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Thanks Mitch
That's great ,2 for a signature so far,I agree interesting place,It seems they wanted to hide it a little,rather than make it obvious,that is my only thought on the placement.

Regards Guido.
 

Guido.

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Feb 20, 2021
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Hello Members
Re this old post of mine,I felt I should share my excitement in discovering the correct maker and history of my casket .As can be seen on the images .The designer was Emile-August Reiber for Christofle &Cie Paris.
circa 1880.
A pity it is not signed . What seemed to confuse everyone was it's unusual look,at this time Reiber designed items (in France)in the Japanese style.
At this period Christofle made some very unusual items of very high quality that many years later became very sort after.
A Christofle made urn on stand ,that was shown on the English antiques roadshow (black and white images of it on the Christofle stand in the Paris exhibition 1874) Was sold at Christies London for 668.000 pounds.
one of the most expensive items to ever be on the show.
 

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Chujybear

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Nice journey of discovery…
I’d say repousse is practically engraving.. i know i wind up engraving everything i chase
 
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