Its the peers that count, customers that pay

[griff silver]

I am just a bit and western engraver/bit and spur maker. I have ask about certifacations and such. I dont know if others feel the way I do but after 10+ years of selling to the public as well as dealers the usuall reponse " Oh thats beautiful" or Wow! those are nice; rarely carries the same punch as if another "professional" makes mention of my work. I tend to seek the approval of my peers, my goal with engraveing is join the elite;to someday be a equal of those who I consider to be the best. Perhaps that is my hang up with trying to get some sort of direction from those that I admire. I feel at this point that selling my work and paying bills is almost automatic and mundane, the only true complement comes from a superior. It is dissapointing that there are no clear milestones to be acheived other than the ability to do a job fulltime as I have acheived this with a minimum of what I consider to be talent. I hope that in the future this changes. Untill then I'll keep Chipp'in away. Griff

 

[webad2006]

Griff,

I looked your work over this weekend in Abilene, I'd say you have plenty of talent, and potential for expanding your skills/buisness in the future. I just wish I could say the same for myself.

Bill.

 

[Ron Smith]

Hey Griff, don't sell yourself short! I see talent, and I for one think it is a shame to waste it. I don't understand the statement that there are "no clear milestones". How about setting a goal that you are going to find some other unique way to apply your skills. Whatever you have learned in bit and spur making is useful as a stepping stone to other creative avenues. I realize the feelings of isolation are sometimes difficut to deal with, but in the right environment you stimulate the creativity within. Maybe it is time to step up and out. You don't have to leave your comfort zone comletely. Try your skills on some other medium, it just might spark the fires of enthusiasm again. As for talent. I never thought I was an artist either, but the truth is you can develope it. That is what I did and I will bet everyone on this forum is doing that same thing. Am I right fellows and gals?...........Ron S

 

[Kerry Bogan]

I think your right Ron, it really helps to move toward something that is a challenge to the point of seeming overwhelming. When you conquer it, it's a great feeling.
Griff you have a good point, working in isolation and by this I mean no contact with your peers can get you into a rut. Every time I go to a show like FEGA or a class I take my work to get it evaluated. Not only do you learn a lot about your work and others but you come away feeling revitalized and meet some great people and engravers at the same time. Also when the master engravers evaluate your work they are usually quite objective and when you do this enough you get a pretty accurate feel for your level of expertise. To me this is the only way to evaluate yourself.
Kerry

 

[Ron Smith]

Kerry, that sounds like wisdom to me, and I predict that you will improve quickly. Not only that, every time you do conquer a new area, it will add to your potential to do something greater. You have the right attitude and you will get a lot of help........... right on, ride on, buddy.............RonS

 

[Weldon47]

Griff,

Keep at it! In my estimation, talent is only as good as your perseverance, discipline and dedication make it. A person of average talent who applies himself diligently will accomplish a great deal, sometimes more & perhaps much more than an extremely talented person who refuses to discipline himself. Think about life in general, we see it happen all the time!

On your other topic, it would be neat if there were some sort of "Master" certification program available where we (USA) engravers could, by achieving or reaching certain levels or steps, thereby earn the title "Master Engraver". "Master Engraver" is a title that is quite frequently thrown around by folks (usually the laymen) when talking about their favorite engraver. I personnaly have been hesitant to call myself a "Master". It would be nice if we (corporately as engravers) could come up with a process toward certification of engravers as apprentice, journeyman & so on.

W

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Some good points have been made here I think. I've seen a lot of naturally talented people fall by the wayside simply because they didn't have the perserverance or dicipline to go forward.

In my opinion it's also necassary to surround yourself with good people. Creative types tend to give a bit of their soul in their work so they need to be topped up as well. Getting together with others of a like mind is essential. I saw this at Reno earlier this year. Staying with John B and meeting all the FEGA people really got me going. Something a bit magic and inspirational happens when creative types get together.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Ray Cover]

I personally would have no interest in such a certification because it frankly would not mean anything. Such titles as "Master Engraver" dont mean anything.

How do I know? I have seen it over and over again in many different venues. I have seen green belts whip the tar out of black belts in the martial arts venue. Having the belt around his waist did not mean he was the best fighter in the ring.

The American Bladesmith Society is another example. THey have a grading system that offers journeyman smith and mastersmith titles. I know of journeyman smiths who can hammer circles around many of the mastersmiths. I have also seen politics, hurt feelings, jealousy and many other bad situations in this system. I suspect that many of the hurt feelings and hurt people would have never happened if they had not placed so much importance on the titles. You can say,"We'll keep the politics out of our organization" but the fact is, if you are going to include human beings in your organization the politics WILL come in with them. I think their original intent was good much like your intent is good. They wanted to set up a system that would allow customers to know what level of quality they were getting. But in the end it has not worked very well in my oppinion.

We should not allow our customers and collectors to be lazy. If they are spending their money, they should be educating themselves on what is and is not good quality. If they have no interest in educating themselves then the old saying is true and the fool will soon be parted from his money.

As for your own confidence, that must come from within yourself. You need to look at your work and as objectively as you can compare it to that of other engravers. Critically analize and make realistic judgements about where your skills are and how to best improve them. You can not count on the praise of your peers. Often work gets posted on a forum and a chain of "atta boys" rush forth with very little constructive critique. Most of the engraving world are very nice people who do not want to offend you or hurt your feelings. Therefore we tend to praise and coddle a lot more than we probably should.

I am convinced that confidence in your quality has to come from within you and from constant objective self critique of your work. IF an artist can't judge his work for himself, any certificates given him by an organization mean no more than the trinkets the Wizard gave to the Lion, the Scarecrow and the Tin Man.

Ray

 

[pilkguns]

well said Ray

 

[jimzim75]

Ray, your right.

 

[Sam]

Often work gets posted on a forum and a chain of "atta boys" rush forth with very little constructive critique. Most of the engraving world are very nice people who do not want to offend you or hurt your feelings. Therefore we tend to praise and coddle a lot more than we probably should.

Those who ASK for critique seem to get it. If someone posts a photo of his or her work and doesn't ask, then I don't feel right telling them how I think they could do better, especially in a public forum. Also, good critique can quite often can be very time consuming.

 

[griff silver]

Cowboys of the Caribean???? LOL

I made this out of scrap, really the skull is a messed up cuflink and the silver for the buckle back is melted down scrap poured and run through a mill. not for the buckle it was just there already from a previous brain fart. I dont recomend engraving on rolled silver its brittle and crapy feeling. This is what I did when I was supposed to be working this afternoon. I appreciate the encouragement from all you guys. I again cant stress how much I like this site; years and years of experience at the touch of a mouse, AWSOME!!!!!
I will try some new things to keep from getting burnt out. I traded some spurs for a 40cal Berreta
Here are some pics for you guys to tear apart, one the buckle the other is a copper plate scan. Give it too me like it is, I'm here to learn and listen. Griff

 

[Ron Smith]

Sounds like wisdom to me Ray. Well said and again, that nail just got pounded to smitherines. Educating them is the key. that is what we all should be doing. We are already educated in this field, correct?...........Right on, ride on Ray!.........Ron S .......

correction............I am talking about educating the public. Everyone is doing that on this forum, including me.... We are all still learning, and I need all the help I can get.