Just off the Bench ... Family Crest Signet Ring

[Christopher Malouf]

Figured I would post some work as it's always a good thing to give credit to whom credit is due ... that would be Sam and his great tutorial.

I've been doing signets now for almost a year, mostly deep relief "class ring", PGA and WVGA stuff but this is the first REAL signet - that is, in reverse.

I used Sam's tutorial for reference which was helpful in getting the mind to work in reverse. Most importantly, little tricks like the stoning of the shield. I used Gesswien moldmaker 600 and 1200 grit stones shaped on a diamond wheel. Other things to always keep in mind is the depth of things like the acanthus leaves and the banner. The deepest part being the part you want out in front of other stuff. Used some onglettes, various width gravers from 70 degree to 120, and some flats.

The customer brought his original ring, done by another engraver, to be melted down and re-done as the guy really didn't take much care and didn't even reverse anything.

There are customers that know they can have their stuff machine done or pressed in a big ring "swaging" machine by one of the big ring companies but still insist it be hand done. I love those customers.

Might have a better photo after I shoot one in the store lighting tomorrow. .... thanx fer lookin'.

Pressed in Sillius Puttium ....

Here's what I had to work from ... The customer requested that the helmet be left off the ring and he left it up to me for the scroll.

 

[John B.]

Well done, Chris.
Good job from the bunker.
Best.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Chris

Looks great!! A tricky peice of work as you have to think in 3 dimensions and in reverse all at the same time.............plus there not exactley a lot of room for any error.

The lettering has come out beautifully.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Weldon47]

Nice work, Chris! The seal looks great!!

WL

 

[Ron Smith]

Chris, a bit of work, but actually kind of fun huh?

Good job Chris!!

Has your customer seen it yet?

A little story:

A customer came in my shop and requested a reverse crest on his ring. My wife waited on him and right away when he heard the price, which was very reasonable for what he requested, he began to rant and said blankity blank how much for something that is just stamped out?

I heard what whas going on and took my vise out on the front counter and said "I don't stamp anything out. I do it by hand", and proceeded to show him how I did hand engraving. He was quite amazed. Which goes to show you how important it is to enlighten your customers when need be. Most of them don't have a clue.

I earned a lot of respect from that guy and he paid the price, so I can hear what you are saying Chris. Those customers you want to keep.

Good Job!!!!

Ron S

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Nice one Chris. It looks like you've done a good job there. I've just had an enquiry from someone who balked a bit when I first quoted but has come back to me. Maybe she couldn't find anyone cheaper, lol. Anyway, I don't have much experience with seal type engraving so I've probably underquoted and will lose out but it'll be an experience. What sort of time do you have in this one, Chris?

 

[Kevin P.]

Proves that hand work is worth a premium.
Kevin P.

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Thank-you guys. I'm really glad you like it.


Hi Marcus,

I know all about under-quoting!! I took a real beating on my first few pro golf signets but doing the extra work is paying off. It's really a small world and these folks all talk to one another.

I have about 10 hours in this including the art work. That's probably a little on the high side but it's the constant thinking in reverse that slows things up at first. Stoning the shield to get a smooth, concave look probably took the most time. The relieved letters in the banner being a close second. I really wanted to get a dimensional look in the wax impression.

Hi Ron,

It sure was fun. Definitely a challenge without a lot of stress. The customer hasn't seen it yet but I know he will be pleased. I have the wax impression from the original ring and I'll do one of this ring in red wax tomorrow. It's a huge difference as the original had no relief at all.

It's definitely a small world too. The last ring I did almost went through the window. Some of these guys want what seems like the Gettysburg Address on a ring and it seems the rings never are big enough. Sucking it up a little, both financially and mentally is paying off as these customers all know one another. I really believe that doing the best work you can do, even if hurts the wallet at first, is the fastest way to get more great work.

Speaking of stress, here's a photo of the last ring I did ... lost a few hundred bucks in time on it but it looks like I might have the privilege to engrave the annual rings for one of the golf tournaments here in W.V.

Many thanks Weldon!!

Hi John ... this one was done "above ground". I think a mouse or something decided to kick the bucket somewhere in the bunker. It's gonna be another week of trying to find it and changing the air :big grin:

Hey Andrew ... backwards in 3 dimensions is an entirely different state-of-mind. No question about it. Getting all of the artwork together first then laying everything out in stages, like in the tutorial, makes it a lot easier.

Hi Kevin, you're right about that and it's good to know that there are people out there who want it. We've got the all the other engravers out there that are also doing fine work to thank too. Without them, it would be a lot harder for us new guys.

 

[jetta77]

Very nice Chris. My mother's maiden name is webb and I'm wondering if her family has the same crest. Very nice job overall, I too have looked at that tutorial several times but don;t think I'll attempt one of those for at least 5 years...

Jeff

 

[Arnaud Van Tilburgh]

Very nice Chris, all is already said about this minuscule precision work and I agree with that.

arnaud

 

[sam]

A very respectable job indeed, Chris. There's good money to be made from seal rings, and there's no reason you can't get a chunk of the business with work like that. I really like to do them. It's a nice departure from my normal engraving routine, and as I've said before, this type of work will make us better engravers.

I'm especially impressed with the lettering in the banner. You've got nice, bold letters that are good and strong. Not easy to do when working down inside like that.

As for the scrolls, I do my own thing too. Quite often what I come up translates better to 3D miniaturization than what the customer provides.

For printing in wax try this: Set the ring face down on an ice cube for a few seconds, then smoke the surface with an oil lamp. Press smoked ring into sealing wax. If done correctly it'll produce a nice, shaded seal that really looks good. I'm not so good at it and it takes me a few attempts to get a good one. Also, Faux Wax is great stuff and easier to use than traditional sealing wax. It's used in a low-temp hot glue gun. / ~Sam

 

[Christopher Malouf]

Hi Sam,

Thank-you for the info. I'm taking notes. I returned the ring to my store customer today and he used traditional sealing wax ... the square stuff. I'll have to get some of my own and use the cube/smoke trick to get a better photo on the next one. This is the best photo I was able to get. I think I need to go a tad deeper next time and fabricate the right sized, round heeled, graver. Removing material from the little "O"'s and the "Q" also need some extra special attention at this scale which means taking the time to fabricate an even smaller carbide burr for my 850.

One other issue with this ring which almost got me to take it back for re-casting were the inclusions. It was not a very good casting. Actually, it was borderline. Doesn't happen often and when it does, it's always the customer's gold.

-----

Hi Arnaud, very much apreciated ... thank-you.

Hi Jeff. 5 years? I've only been engraving for 4 and commercially for 3 years. I know you can do it ... I also know you've had some fantastic, first class instructors. :thumbs up: If your family crest is the same, let me know and I'll send you the artwork.


Thanks again guys .... and a great tutorial Sam. I am getting a good amount of signet ring work but I really hope to get more of the family crest rings. I very much enjoy this type of work most.

Chris

 

[BrianPowley]

Chris, The ring is a real beauty....and you owe me a visit.
Saddle up and no excuses! LOL!

 

[Kevin P.]

Chris there's another wax you might try for an impression.
It's called faceter's wax, since it's what we use to attach the stone to the dop when faceting.
It's a tan color and melts at a lower temp, and is very clean. Alcohol removes any residue.
Raytech carries it and I think Kingsley North, Norway, MI.
Kevin P.

 

[sam]

Good ol' Thermo-Loc also makes excellent signet ring impressions.

 

[KenB]

While working on COA's I use a kneaded rubber eraser to check the progress as I go. It makes a perfect imprint and allows you to keep the depth and detail constant. It's re-usable, quick, cheap and it works.
KenB

 

[Christopher Malouf]

I would have to say that having two types of stuff is good ... something reusable to check during the engraving and the seal wax that the customer is most likely to use. The final successful "test", in the real wax, being the one that I would keep for my own records to show with photos of the ring.

I noticed the silly putty doesn't hold the impression very long, especially in humid weather.

Great ideas guys ... many thanks.

-----

Hey Brian, I didn't forget!! The engrave-in has come and gone and I just gotta get a bunch of stuff off the bench so I can fill the gas tank in my "Government Motors" truck. I know, no excuses ... but, but my dog ate my road maps .... and then, ummm there was this volcano and the lava ....... :big grin: