Learning the hard way

[M. J. Atkinson]

The story of my life, but I do have fun. I had never checked my GRS sharpener rig, but decided to the other day and found that the holder post was a loong way from being square with the disc. Never had crossed my mind to check it. Amazing how much better my cuts are when the angles are close to being correct. Also, last nite I had printed a pattern on some stencil film, you know the stuff with a peel off sticky back good for putting a pattern on glass or for wood carving. I have always noticed that I had to wait a long time for the ink to dry (HP 1210 machine). While waiting I got inspired and grabbed a practice plate that had long been coated with NGraver layout fluid, put the pattern face down and burnished----got a pretty darn good transfer, problem is that the backing is opaque so positioning might be a problem. Tried it again today with HP transpanency and found that printing on the wrong side of it using tacky NGraver fluid gives a barely fair transfer. Fun experimenting, but methinks I will get some of Tom White's solution.

 

[Tim Wells]

It's funny you should mention that. I helped Paul Hamler put together and test the first 50 or so of the fixtures he makes and checked every one of them for plumb, square, true, and any other thing we could think of. The idea being to get them as close to perfect as possible thereby eliminating as many sources of "wink" and or angle differential as possible.

This way when you dial in an angle, you get that actual angle every time. It is built to extremely tight tolerances and is why it's so dead on accurate. In all that, I never once thought to check the dual angle GRS fixture I have, never even crossed my mind.

I have had mine modified to tighten it up so it isn't so sloppy of a fit on the post and will use the base I have for the Hamler so they all use the same one. Yet another way to rule out variances... Both of these tools are invaluable.

 

[ihsfab]

Tim it's funny you mentioned Paul. I just got a fixture from him today, I haven't had a chance to play with it yet. Maybe tommorrow.

 

[coincutter]

maybe the new grs duals are ok but the older ones are not kewl
sloppy machine work and other problems
never the same twice!!!!
but thats what makes sharpening so much fun
with a large hammer you can tweak them into workability

 

[Tim Wells]

I know what you mean Coincutter. They did improve them somewhat by changing the metal where the hole is so it doesn't stick so bad to the shaft. I have the one with the holes through the aluminum and had Paul modifiy it as an experiment.

I didn't, and still don't feel that I should have to pay GRS again for an update to a tool that In my eyes was in part a poor design.

I like the thing pretty well but the key as in all things with me is in the details and the sticky post was my main gripe. The wink was the other gripe and now those problems are solved with a little creative thinking and application of an idea.

I won't poo poo the original fixture as it does work and beats the McKinzie method for me, I'm too sloppy in that regard to get a consistent angle doing it that way, I tried. I'd rather get rid of as many of the various factors that form stumbling blocks to good cutting so I can cut my learning curve as much as possible. I can spend the time I would have spent learning to sharpen that way and apply that effort to cutting with a "no suprises" graver grind that I know is correct. That way I can only blame myself for a bad line and teach myself to cut it right.

 

[pilkguns]

Coincutter, I don't know who you are but it seems you have some complaint about the GRS fixture. Not sure what but if you have problem with the fixture that has been mismachined (yes mistakes happen) would'nt it be a better to send it back to GRS and let them send you a new one rather than griping about it?

GRS has made several changes to the fixtures over the years, both in terms of fixtures themselves and specific changes on the individual fixtures. Some were good changes and some were intended to be but were not. If you have one of the latter, GRS will make it good.

I have had a lot of experience with new GRS fixtures, because I have taught for them for over 11 years, and in the early years was the only teacher, teaching 5 or 6 classes a year (in the last 3 or 4 years because of my schedule, I have only had one class a year). Anyway we got every year new fixtures in the classroom (so they would look pretty for the students, not because they needed changed) and I as the teacher had to deal with new changes as they occured, or once an assembly mistake by a new person assemblying them. But in each case, the intent was to get it right at the end for the end user.

As for the longevity of the fixture, I have one of the very original dual angles, ordered immediately after I saw it at a FEGA show.... mayb 15or 20 years ago. It basically duplicated what I had made already combining the clamp style GRS fixture with a properly indexed Crocker chuck face. While i have made a few cuts on it to be able to do some more unusual grinds, the basic function remains the same and there is no slop in it that would make any real difference to graver sharpinging process and it is many years old now, and used a good bit.

 

[Peter E]

While I haven't seen or tried the Hamler fixture (I have looked at it on-line as well as his absolutely amazing miniature tools and I have no doubt it is superb) I do have the GRS Dual angle purchased 11/05. I do not have any issues with the accuracy or lack of in sharpening.

What I did learn, and I suspect it would be no different using the Hamler fixture, is that it is CRITICAL to have the graver precisely at the 6 o'clock position when grinding the face angle. If not, if grinding the Lindsay point, the parallel heel grinds will be off.

While at GRS 10/06, I did notice what may have been a prototype of the Dual Angle fixture with a aluminum colored piece with one continuous hole that that slides on the post instead of the version on my fixture with two holes and a space between. I could see over time how some play may develop on the older style but so far mine works well.

I would be interested to hear from those that switched from a recent Dual Angle to the Hamler fixture.

Thanks,
Peter

 

[TallGary]

I like my dual angle fixture, never had a problem with it -- but you may have trouble, like I did, with the "front deck" on some of the older power hones being slightly bowed. If you don't take that into account when using the hone, you may not be able to get consistent results. Take a look at the link below -- scan down to find the reply with pictures illustrating the problem (about 8 down) and a suggested method to correct it.

http://www.igraver.com/forum/showthread.php?t=684

If a less than flat top on a power hone is your problem, I think think this will help.

Gary