Mixing metals for color inlays and overlays
- Thread starter Glenn
- Start date
Mike Cirelli
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Here are a few comparisons of hardness for different precious metals, you may be able to anneal some metals down softer. This should give you somewhat an idea of what you can expect. Most numbers are using Stullers alloy other suppliers may be different. The 257 Vickers hardness would be like tiring to inlay a paper clip.
Vickers Hardness
32 silver 22 dead soft
30 24k fine gold dead soft 20
74 22k gold
122 10k red
136 14k red
95 18k green
257 18k red
37 platinum dead soft
110 .900 plat/irid
Karat golds are as followed
14k .5833 fine gold 0r 58.33% gold the rest being alloy
18k .7500 fine gold
22k .9167
Chris is right you can mix just about any karat gold you want. In the US jewelry market anything below 10k can not be considered as karat gold. I don't make the rules just follow them. I would suggest using a commercial available alloy, you can be very accurate and know what you’re getting at the end.
Hope this helps.
Mike
Vickers Hardness
32 silver 22 dead soft
30 24k fine gold dead soft 20
74 22k gold
122 10k red
136 14k red
95 18k green
257 18k red
37 platinum dead soft
110 .900 plat/irid
Karat golds are as followed
14k .5833 fine gold 0r 58.33% gold the rest being alloy
18k .7500 fine gold
22k .9167
Chris is right you can mix just about any karat gold you want. In the US jewelry market anything below 10k can not be considered as karat gold. I don't make the rules just follow them. I would suggest using a commercial available alloy, you can be very accurate and know what you’re getting at the end.
Hope this helps.
Mike
Mike Cirelli
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I would ask for Stullers Metals Book. It is very informative. You can also contact United Precious metals both have websites. Check out the making wire on Igraver and you will see some of the tools needed. One other thing you'll need is a good scale to alloy the gold.
Mike
Mike
Thanks for the input.
I'll look for Stullers metal book. I presently have the following tools:
Furnace for color case hardening of rifle/shotgun actions
Rolls for sheet and wire
Carbide draw plate
Scale for measuring in grains/grams
There may be some thing I'm missing.
I did'nt mean to make this about my own situation, but more for the group who might have interest in different colors of inlay materials. Thanks again for all your input.
I'll look for Stullers metal book. I presently have the following tools:
Furnace for color case hardening of rifle/shotgun actions
Rolls for sheet and wire
Carbide draw plate
Scale for measuring in grains/grams
There may be some thing I'm missing.
I did'nt mean to make this about my own situation, but more for the group who might have interest in different colors of inlay materials. Thanks again for all your input.
Mike, If I understand your hardness scale correctly it looks like 10k and 14k red are both softer than 18. Is this correct. I tried some 18k red recently and gave up. I'm all ears as to how inlaying these harder metals differs in technique from what one would normally do with 24k gold.
The suppliers make mistakes just like everyone else does,you can't always trust what you recieve from them. alloying problems,annealing,colors are just a few things you can expect problems with at any time.each supplier usually has their own annealing temperatures and guidelines published online or in their catalogs.
Lee, 18K red gold has strange working properties,usually a lot of practice and frustration will eventually get you to where you want to be.
Mike Cirelli
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
You have to understand that the karat gold hardnesses was taken from Stuller's metals book and other sources I had real quick. These alloys may not even be suitable for inlay. I would look for a rolling or inlay type alloy something that is meant to be squashed and stretched. Other alloys may crack and work harden to fast. When you inlay an alloyed gold you have to be much more accurate with the size cause once it work hardens your done it won't go in, it's not like fine gold. Fine gold is more like putty, karat gold will be more like plastic if I had to compare. Example would be if your doing a fine line inlay with 24k and your wire is a little to big 24k is very forgiving and will go in the undercut. I was recently doing some small letters on a gun and accidentally grab my 22k gold and it would not go in I finally got it in the fine lettering about 1mm, thought I was having a bad day then I realized what I did and did 20 letters w/24k in the time it took me messin with 1 letter 22k. The best gold to use is 24k. Harder metals prepare to be aggravated until you figure it out.
Mike
Mike
Glen and others.
I have been watching this thread of yours and the replies.
Here are five things that I hope are some help to you.
First, make sure to fully anneal any type of material as the last step before attempting to seat it as an inlay.
Second, where possible create a seperate cavity for the hardest alloy first.
Inlay it and dress it nearly back. Then make the cavity adjoining for the next hardest alloy and so on. The softest alloy is the last part of the jigsaw puzzle. This way, the harder alloy does not push the softer ones around when you are doing the seating.
Third, cut the finished shape of the inlay out of 24K gold about .005-.007 thick. Cut each of the parts that is a different colored alloys out of 10-12 thousands thick material and fit together on top of the thin sheet of gold like fitting jigsaw pieces.
Then clean and "tin" the gold sheet base with silver solder. Flux the pieces and assemble the parts held into place by very small spring points.
Apply a fine flame to solder the pieces to the base 24K sheet.
I made a small fixture that has six pointed spring rods so that it doesn't act as a heat sink.
Clean the assembly of any flux or scale and inlay with a brass punch.
Its the 24K soft gold back that spreads easily into the undercut and takes the bite of the field of burs.
Number four . Cut out each part and solder them individually to soft gold backing. Again, this way you are not trying to seat materials that will work harden with even a hard look!
This is how I make soft sheet iron inlays too.
I do not like to use copper backing because of the potential problems of copper in bluing solutions.
Five. Another way that some may consider cheating is to selective pen plate the colors onto your fine gold inlay. As long as there is no attempt to use cheap material for the base, nothing but 24/22K gold, I don't see this as a problem.
Sorry this is so long, just my thoughts. Hope it is some help.
Hope to see you in Reno, Glen.
John B.
I have been watching this thread of yours and the replies.
Here are five things that I hope are some help to you.
First, make sure to fully anneal any type of material as the last step before attempting to seat it as an inlay.
Second, where possible create a seperate cavity for the hardest alloy first.
Inlay it and dress it nearly back. Then make the cavity adjoining for the next hardest alloy and so on. The softest alloy is the last part of the jigsaw puzzle. This way, the harder alloy does not push the softer ones around when you are doing the seating.
Third, cut the finished shape of the inlay out of 24K gold about .005-.007 thick. Cut each of the parts that is a different colored alloys out of 10-12 thousands thick material and fit together on top of the thin sheet of gold like fitting jigsaw pieces.
Then clean and "tin" the gold sheet base with silver solder. Flux the pieces and assemble the parts held into place by very small spring points.
Apply a fine flame to solder the pieces to the base 24K sheet.
I made a small fixture that has six pointed spring rods so that it doesn't act as a heat sink.
Clean the assembly of any flux or scale and inlay with a brass punch.
Its the 24K soft gold back that spreads easily into the undercut and takes the bite of the field of burs.
Number four . Cut out each part and solder them individually to soft gold backing. Again, this way you are not trying to seat materials that will work harden with even a hard look!
This is how I make soft sheet iron inlays too.
I do not like to use copper backing because of the potential problems of copper in bluing solutions.
Five. Another way that some may consider cheating is to selective pen plate the colors onto your fine gold inlay. As long as there is no attempt to use cheap material for the base, nothing but 24/22K gold, I don't see this as a problem.
Sorry this is so long, just my thoughts. Hope it is some help.
Hope to see you in Reno, Glen.
John B.
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SharpGraver
Elite Cafe Member
John that is a very ingenious solution to the problem that I wouldn't have thought of till I didn't have a hair left on my head and truthfully there aren't too many to start with.
David
David
Hi All.
A couple of other things I forgot to add, mostly aimed toward the less experienced engravers.
When seating inlay materials that work harden quickly forget about using power equipment as the hammer.
It's time to give the piece a good sharp smack using a hammer to drive a brass punch. This will get the piece started into the undercut and allow the field burs to hook on to the inlay before it gets too hard.
This means for this and all inlays the parent base material must be firmly held and fully supported. If the piece has any hollow space, fill it with something solid or some wedges.
Any springing or movement in the base material will create problems.
All this being said, be careful not to bend or distort whatever you are attempting to inlay into.
I hate when that happens!!!!!
Best regards, John.
Glen, thank you for the kind words again. The check is in the mail LOL.
Will see you in Reno but I might miss Wally Beinfelds Vegas show this year. John.
A couple of other things I forgot to add, mostly aimed toward the less experienced engravers.
When seating inlay materials that work harden quickly forget about using power equipment as the hammer.
It's time to give the piece a good sharp smack using a hammer to drive a brass punch. This will get the piece started into the undercut and allow the field burs to hook on to the inlay before it gets too hard.
This means for this and all inlays the parent base material must be firmly held and fully supported. If the piece has any hollow space, fill it with something solid or some wedges.
Any springing or movement in the base material will create problems.
All this being said, be careful not to bend or distort whatever you are attempting to inlay into.
I hate when that happens!!!!!
Best regards, John.
Glen, thank you for the kind words again. The check is in the mail LOL.
Will see you in Reno but I might miss Wally Beinfelds Vegas show this year. John.
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