My First Knife

[JBrandvik]

I started engraving 4 months ago and until this knife the only thing I have done so far is scratch around on steel practice plates and a few other steel odds and ends. I finally worked up the courage to try to engrave on something 'real' yesterday and this is what I chose. Its a cheap little single blade folder (2.5 inches long closed) that I dug out of the kitchen junk drawer. I know there is much room for improvement but I would appreciate your honest criticisms.

Here's what I know is wrong.
1. The design is a little undersized for the area. I learned this as I did the background removal and suddenly everthing shrunk. How is the best way to compensate for this shrinkage when you are laying out the overall design?
2. The border is a little ragged now because, try as I might, I nicked it here and there with the rotory. How do you A., avoid this apparent inevitability or B., repair it after the fact. I havent tried to go back and clean it up with a graver as I am afraid I'll end up just chasing the ragged border closer to the edge and end up with no border at all.
3. The mysteries of shading seem to elude me still. I tried to taper the shading lines by gradually lifting the graver / increasing the power as the line progressed to its termination point. I have practiced this with better success on practice plates, but the results were not as I had hoped for on this knife. I know this is probably mostly due to lack of graver control but if you can see what the issues are, please point them out.

With the exception of the shrinkage problem, I am fairly pleased with the design but I would welcome your criticisms there as well. I used a graver with 115 degree Lindsay grind, a 90 degree Lindsay grind for the shading, and a 1/16th" carbide dental bur ground to a needle point with a couple of flats ground at the tip. The project took about 8 hours total.

Finally, I see a lot of posts from very accomplished engravers on this and on Steve's forum. I always try to look for photos of new guys work to try to gage how I am doing compared to other beginners so I'd welcome comments from other newbies as well.

Thanks

 

[Ron Smith]

Jim, for four months of struggling with engraving techniques, you are doing great. Study your leaf structures and spiral development and oh yes, the shrinking phenominon. The reason this happens is because the design looks fine when you lay it out, but when you take out the background it sort of looks enimic. This is because of the width of the cut and it bcomes part of the background as it is in contrast with the surface metal. the solution is make your surface (uncut or engraved) areas about a craver cut larger than you think you need to, but also consider that the design should have more important value than the background and give it as much space as you can, but leave clear, consistent, and balanced background spaces. Plan your leaf placement with this in mind, making sure that you don't have massive surface areas and leaf clusters. which attract the eye away from the balance and rythum of your work. Consistant leaf mass and consistent background spaces create this rythum and give your work a beat.

Obviously, you need better tool control for only 4 months of practice, but you are coming along extremely fast and you don't need to be worried about how you are doing compared to anyone else. Do the best that you can everytime you sit down and progression will come. Understand the structural elements of spiral and leaf design and the visual aspec of your work will reflect your knowledge in a profound way, even if your cutting isn't exactly up to the highest standards. Your cutting will come with time and application, but your knowledge of design must be understood. Start with a single leaf that you like, break it down one line at a time and put it back together one line at a time. Pay attention to each line and its character thereof, add the next line according to its individual character and so on until you understand that putting parts together correctly makes the difference in how the leaf or spiral looks when finished.
You are doing fine Jim, don't get discouraged and don't give up. You are not afraid to be critisized and that is your most important asset. You will get a lot of help with this attitude, so hang in there. Hope this helps a bit. If you have more questons ask....Ron S

 

[Ron Smith]

Also, about the rotary tool, you can remove background with a flat graver. there are other posts about this very subject recently discussed. I am a little nervous about the rotary as much as a number of engravers use this method. If I were to use one, I would do what somene suggested and that is don't take out the background with the rotary tool right up to the outlines of the scrolls. Remove the background there with a flat. You can get a large flat into surprisingly small areas by cutting with the corner of the tool slanted inward toward the center of the background space, and leaving the center high which you can take out with a smaller flat.

 

[Jon C. Dake]

Jim: I have been engraving only about 2 years and I can tell you from my own experience that you will definitely get better with more and more practice. If you don't have a microscope, think seriously about buying one. It will make you a better engraver now, rather than two years from now - you can't cut what you can't see, just my opinion. I think that for four months your first knife is not bad, and this is from someone who finds fault in everything that I cut. If you have a scanner try scanning your design to your computer and using a drawing program do a bucket fill in black of the background, it will give you a better idea in advance of how the design will look with the background removed. Check out the tips from Andrew Biggs on the Tips page of this forum for great information on shading. I have only been using a rotary handpiece for about 6 months and, just like engraving, it takes practice to learn control.

Like you, I am in awe of the incredible engraving that I see on this and on Steve's forum, and elsewhere. Don't worry about not being able to do what the guys that have been doing this for years are able to do. We will get there sooner or later, it is just a matter of practice, after all, I suspect that they didn't do that class of work for a while after they started either.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Jim you just got some valuable advise for free you can't beat that.
I would suggest going to a conventional heel at least in the beginning. It will help you develop a lighter touch, keep your heel very small. With a conventional heel if you heavy hand it and cut deeper than your heel you'll start digging in deep and get stuck. Hench it will train you to have a lighter hand. With the type of grind your using you can have a heavy hand and pull out of it. Also as Ron sort of suggested remove the background by hand until you feel comfortable with the rotary it can be a monster. Make parallel cuts with a 90 and go in with a flat and cut them out. But keep practicing with the rotary it's great. Jim your doing great keep it up.

Ron I just want to complement you on your critique. You give great advise and never belittle anyone you should be as proud of that as your works of arts you produce.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jim

Well done.

There are two things that will improve your work. Practice and more practice. With each engraving you'll understand the process more and start developing that critical eye and tool control for things. Don't worry about your work compared to others as it's not a race with a finishing line. It's a life long endeavour so just learn at your own speed.

One way to avoid that shrinkage if you are relieving the background is to make your cut on the outside of the line.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Joe Mason]

Jim, All the advise here is great. I would like to reinforce that it is not a race. You are on your own time table. I recommend to study your engraving and make it better on the next one. Keep the designs simple and when you feel good about it, take it to a new level. One step at a time.

Joe

www.joemasonengraving.com

 

[JBrandvik]

What a great time we live in to be able to ask for help and get it so fast and from such notable experts. The old saying of, “When the student is ready, the master will appear,†seems to apply here in spades. I posted the photos and then took my wife to dinner. When we got back home, there were pearls of wisdom waiting for me. Thanks everyone for your comments so far.

Ron, your books are never more than an arm’s reach no matter where I am. I have read Advanced Scroll Drawing several times and learn something new and applicable each time. I am looking forward to my next read of it now that I have tried engraving on something that is not a plain old square. I have read your advice in the books about keeping the leaf area consistent. I can read it and I believe it, but sometimes I can’t seem to resist the urge to size up or down to fit the area that is nagging me. Now that you have pointed it out directly, I promise I’ll try harder. I will try your tips about using flat next time before I cut loose with the rotary. Regarding the shrinking design phenomena – I drew this design on paper first then used it as a visual reference and freehanded the design with the graver. This is the way I usually engrave. Should I draw the reference design fatter than normal too or just compensate while cutting?

Thanks so much for your generosity in helping me. You and your books are truly a blessing.

Jon, I agree with you about the scope. Though it probably doesn’t show it, but I did do this work under a Meiji scope. The knife is tiny and a lot smaller than the first photos indicate. Each of the engraved bolsters is only about ½ the area of the face of a dime. Here’s another photo next to a dime to indicate that. It makes me wonder how the old masters did such amazing work with just simple magnification or none at all.

Mike, Thanks for the words of encouragement. Your work has always impressed me and you have always been giving of your time and expertise. I have another little project that calls for background removal in some tiny little areas. I will try your and Ron’s tips on using the flat and let you know how it goes. Don’t forget to stop in and introduce yourself the next time you get back to the Hill Country.

Andrew, Thanks for the kind words. I know you are right about practice and more practice, but I have never been a patient man. This is probably working against me in engraving as more time in the design aspect would certainly be a good thing. I know you are right but it is hard to be patient when I see so many truly amazing accomplishments in engraving here.

Joe, I don’t think of it as a race, but …hey wait second somebody’s right on my tail! Seriously, the other day Jacques Herbst posted a practice plate that I thought was absolute perfection and he has been engraving for only a year. I wrote him before starting this project and his advise was to keep pushing myself with each project. It’s probably the reason I tried this tiny knife in the first place. I can’t help but aim high with examples like those as inspiration.

Thanks again all your advice and critiques are very welcome and appreciated.

 

[sdcoxx]

Jim,
Good for you. I'm still procrastinating.
Besides, I'm hooked on hobo nickels.
I practice on buffalo nickels and sell them on ebay as hobo nickels.
Give them a try..
Stephen

 

[Marian Sawby]

Jim, For deep relief I really like the rotary handpiece. To increase control, I take a strip of electrical tape and wrap it around the handpiece toward the frontof the handpiece leaving enough extra tape to form a tab which I can hold onto with my left hand. This really allows additional control. Also you might try the smallest burs, one-quarter millimeter for the tighter places. And, as several others have told you, outline your design using a square graver or a flat graver. After some practice, I think you'll find the rotary tool the fastest way to remove background. Marian Sawby

 

[Ron Smith]

Jim, I'm here along with all of the other guys with good information, to help you if I can........just know that we were all probably impatient when we started. Patience also comes with experience and discipline, and you develope that too as you have a need for it, so don't worry about that. Just do the best that you can. That is all that is ever required of you. That is all that is ever required of any of us, and as long as we are willing to improve we will, so keep that in mind and rock on...........Best of luck to you, and keep us posted on your progress..........Ron S

 

[JBrandvik]

Marian,
Thanks for your tips with the rotory. I was glad to hear from an advocate of using rotory tools for BG removal. So many people caution against their use at all because they are difficult to control. Even with my little experience, I can see that they do make short work of the job. I will keep trying with the rotory until I get it or until it gets me. Since my original post of the knife, I have been practicing by cutting away the critical areas with a flat (like a 36 or 37) as suggested by Ron Smith and others to give myself a little lee-way to use the rotory with more confidence.

Speaking of Ron Smith... Is this man the very definition of class or what? Thanks again, Ron.

Ron, I am not being too selfish in saying that I hope you can continue to find time to be active on the forum and still be a productive artist / engraver.