Cloudy
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Critique Request Please use other door
- Thread starter Cloudy
- Start date
FANCYGUN
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
How large is this plate? That can help in the critique.
Cloudy
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
about 3.5" long and 2.5" wide
Arnaud Van Tilburgh
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
What I can ad to this to improve it that the shading could be much better, both the pointing hand as the lettering.
At the end of the scroll on the left side of the hand, you ad a shadow although the scroll has no thickness.
In short, I would add more shadow also using the greys.
arnaud
At the end of the scroll on the left side of the hand, you ad a shadow although the scroll has no thickness.
In short, I would add more shadow also using the greys.
arnaud
fegarex
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Cloudy,
Looking at it on my laptop the image is more than 2X times larger so any issues show up a lot more then they would on the real plate.
That said, I see you may want to try to keep the width of the line letters a bit more consistent.
I'm guessing at this but it looks like you may have done the lettering layout on a computer? The reason I say this is the "O" in other isn't kerned correctly. It should be a bit closer. Computers space them out mechanically. Some programs allow you to manually kern the letters.
Again, looking at it so large shows some flaws more then if it were viewed by the naked eye. Also, block lettering for me can be one of the HARDEST types of lettering to make look perfect. Everyone KNOWS what a good S looks like but they may not know what a good scroll looks like so they are drawn right to the lettering. If I would have done this project, I might have selected more a script type font that allows a little bit of leeway and still look OK.
All in all it is a nice job however.
Rex
Looking at it on my laptop the image is more than 2X times larger so any issues show up a lot more then they would on the real plate.
That said, I see you may want to try to keep the width of the line letters a bit more consistent.
I'm guessing at this but it looks like you may have done the lettering layout on a computer? The reason I say this is the "O" in other isn't kerned correctly. It should be a bit closer. Computers space them out mechanically. Some programs allow you to manually kern the letters.
Again, looking at it so large shows some flaws more then if it were viewed by the naked eye. Also, block lettering for me can be one of the HARDEST types of lettering to make look perfect. Everyone KNOWS what a good S looks like but they may not know what a good scroll looks like so they are drawn right to the lettering. If I would have done this project, I might have selected more a script type font that allows a little bit of leeway and still look OK.
All in all it is a nice job however.
Rex
Cloudy
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Arnaud - thanks for pointing out the shadowing- I was just trying to put in everything I was learning- not particularly appropriate in this instance!
Rex- yes- this is WAAAAAY oversized! I've since figured out how to "properly" post thumbnail images here...
That "O" is mostly operator error- didn't bring the right side over enough when I went around the corner- kerning does need to have attention, though.
On the plus side, this will never be mistaken for having been done by machine
Rex- yes- this is WAAAAAY oversized! I've since figured out how to "properly" post thumbnail images here...
That "O" is mostly operator error- didn't bring the right side over enough when I went around the corner- kerning does need to have attention, though.
On the plus side, this will never be mistaken for having been done by machine
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pilkguns
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
like Rex says, the line consistency could be improved, nothing says you can't go back know and try to even them up, cutting them a little wider where necessary to true them. Look at the upper left hand corner. Looks to me like you started going down and right from the same corner. Whenver you start a line, you can see where the graver is getting deep because of the tapered width. You need to turn around and cut back into that corner, and pop out the graver right at the corner, so you have a consistent thickness both ways.
But overall it looks real good.
But overall it looks real good.
Hi Cloudy,
I reduced it to 32% on my laptop computer and it looks pretty fair.
As Rex said that's about real size to the viewer
The S in please is going to be the hardest to fix IMO.
The spacing will have to be lived with.
Scott and others have given you some good advise to go with.
Again, we pick nits here......Most folks would love it as is.
Keep going onward and upward. Good effort.
I reduced it to 32% on my laptop computer and it looks pretty fair.
As Rex said that's about real size to the viewer
The S in please is going to be the hardest to fix IMO.
The spacing will have to be lived with.
Scott and others have given you some good advise to go with.
Again, we pick nits here......Most folks would love it as is.
Keep going onward and upward. Good effort.
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Cloudy
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Thanks! If I didn't want nits, I wouldn't have posted!
Is scribing a line across the tops & bottoms of the letters before I start to engrave considered tacky?
Is scribing a line across the tops & bottoms of the letters before I start to engrave considered tacky?
FANCYGUN
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Cloudy.
I am always TACKY when doing letters. It just makes life easier and helps true things up as you go along.
I am always TACKY when doing letters. It just makes life easier and helps true things up as you go along.
Cloudy,.....What Marty said, IMO.
Jim Sackett
Elite Cafe Member
Hi Cloudy
An easyer way to cut Roman lettering is with a small round graver say about size fifty for the hairline cuts. Cut the horizontals a little short where you want to sharpen the ends with a square graver. For the verticle body strokes use a 38 or 40 flat graver or a 6 12 liner. These will insure even waight through out.
Jim
An easyer way to cut Roman lettering is with a small round graver say about size fifty for the hairline cuts. Cut the horizontals a little short where you want to sharpen the ends with a square graver. For the verticle body strokes use a 38 or 40 flat graver or a 6 12 liner. These will insure even waight through out.
Jim
fegarex
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I agree with Marty and John as well.
At least on a material that can be sanded after. With lettering, cutting just over the guide line or under can look HUGE so a real good line is a must for me at least.
Perhaps Ron and Sam who do it a lot more have better input.
At least on a material that can be sanded after. With lettering, cutting just over the guide line or under can look HUGE so a real good line is a must for me at least.
Perhaps Ron and Sam who do it a lot more have better input.
pilkguns
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I know I'm just a barefoot hillbilly from Tennessee but okay, I'll bite, what is TACKY?
FANCYGUN
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
It's another word for uncouth.....
my criticism would simply be this: on a utility type object such as you are doing here, i wouldn't do bulino at all to shade this. perhaps fine line, variably spaced cross hatching might do just fine with this design. since this is an "old style" type design, that's how i would do it. it would take on quite an antique sort of look to it. as above, your letters, tho not really, really bad-- could be rescued somewhat with careful & consistent cuts. this does look pleasant, however. sure didn't come from wally world, that's for sure !
cloudy: if you learn some of the transfer tricks, you wont have to worry about those pesky layout lines. how did you do the text layout on your plate ?
Cloudy,
The plate looks fine for what it is and m ost people would be pleased with it, but some of the finer points of lettering is Roman letters are the hardest to do as you have many optical illusions. If you were copying art work from a source, you had no choice, but I never scribe lines when lettering. You have to polish or sand it off and I want the surface to be as original as when i got the article to engrave. If you made the plate and it is not plated, you can pretty much do it the way you want, but customer merchandise is anotheer matter.
I make my lettering layouts with wax, powder and try not to scratch the article, often times putting a paper frame so my fingers don't touch the metal. A working engraver has rough hands and calouses, or at least pushing a burin without power is rough on the fingers and they get tough. Power tools, not a problem so much.
When you do your layout, stay within the horizontal lines. Cut beside the line rather than on the line. This will help minimise the raggedness of very slight mistakes in line placement because when you remove the guide lines, you will see all of the flaws then.
Mechanical spacing is no good when lettering as mentioned before, unless you pick a font that is better spaced than most.
A gothic style letter is easier to do and looks much more precise.
Depending on the price you are getting, you can wriggle the stems of the letters and the width will remain consistant. You can also do it with a flat and accomplish the same thing as mentioned before. You can do the horizontal lines with a round bottom and it will clean up the horizontal accuracy a bit and this is important, but you still might have to go both directions to be really consistant.
You will waste a lot of time using computer transfers on little jobs. Where that would come in handy is on long inscriptions. In my day, I could probly have it layed out and cut in the time it takes to go through the computer process, unless you know something I don't.
Anyway, the plaque looks commercially acceptable to me and most people won't know the difference.
It would be good to learn letter structure and be able to lay it out by hand. J.M. Bergling books are a good source for all styles of letters. This is what I learned from, and they have an antique look that most ebvery one likes.
It does look hand done. A plus in my book.
Hope these tips help.
Ron S
The plate looks fine for what it is and m ost people would be pleased with it, but some of the finer points of lettering is Roman letters are the hardest to do as you have many optical illusions. If you were copying art work from a source, you had no choice, but I never scribe lines when lettering. You have to polish or sand it off and I want the surface to be as original as when i got the article to engrave. If you made the plate and it is not plated, you can pretty much do it the way you want, but customer merchandise is anotheer matter.
I make my lettering layouts with wax, powder and try not to scratch the article, often times putting a paper frame so my fingers don't touch the metal. A working engraver has rough hands and calouses, or at least pushing a burin without power is rough on the fingers and they get tough. Power tools, not a problem so much.
When you do your layout, stay within the horizontal lines. Cut beside the line rather than on the line. This will help minimise the raggedness of very slight mistakes in line placement because when you remove the guide lines, you will see all of the flaws then.
Mechanical spacing is no good when lettering as mentioned before, unless you pick a font that is better spaced than most.
A gothic style letter is easier to do and looks much more precise.
Depending on the price you are getting, you can wriggle the stems of the letters and the width will remain consistant. You can also do it with a flat and accomplish the same thing as mentioned before. You can do the horizontal lines with a round bottom and it will clean up the horizontal accuracy a bit and this is important, but you still might have to go both directions to be really consistant.
You will waste a lot of time using computer transfers on little jobs. Where that would come in handy is on long inscriptions. In my day, I could probly have it layed out and cut in the time it takes to go through the computer process, unless you know something I don't.
Anyway, the plaque looks commercially acceptable to me and most people won't know the difference.
It would be good to learn letter structure and be able to lay it out by hand. J.M. Bergling books are a good source for all styles of letters. This is what I learned from, and they have an antique look that most ebvery one likes.
It does look hand done. A plus in my book.
Hope these tips help.
Ron S
chris
Member
use the other door
Hello Cloudy,
What Ron said is right ,anyone would be proud to own that ,
and being blown up will always show your little flaws ,
the only thing i think is not quit right is your shading of the o , d ,r they should be cut from the out side shaded inwards .everyone correct me if im wrong because i have seen early english firearms done the same way to, but as i understand should always shade inwards ,
Lettering is one of the most difficult in all engraving i believe you really have to concentrate every one knows what good writing looks like , they see it every day ,fantastic effort.
Chris
Hello Cloudy,
What Ron said is right ,anyone would be proud to own that ,
and being blown up will always show your little flaws ,
the only thing i think is not quit right is your shading of the o , d ,r they should be cut from the out side shaded inwards .everyone correct me if im wrong because i have seen early english firearms done the same way to, but as i understand should always shade inwards ,
Lettering is one of the most difficult in all engraving i believe you really have to concentrate every one knows what good writing looks like , they see it every day ,fantastic effort.
Chris
Cloudy
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Chris- I'm not sure at all what you are telling me- is the graver to tilt inward (to the left) rather than outward as I have done it?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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