removing info on guns

[tdelewis]

In Issue no. 128 of "The Engraver" Layne Z. states in his article that, "the first order of business was to remove all factory lettering." This caught my attention because I thought that removing factory information was against the law. I know it is against the law to remove serial numbers, but how much of factory information can be remover from a firearm? C Sharps makes 1885 Winchester actions and they stamp their company information on the side of the action. This takes up engraving space. It would be nice to be able to remove it. I'm not sure they are still making them but they did in the past.

 

[graniteguy52]

The laws I am familiar with only are concerned with the serial number not being altered (this could be interpreted as saying we could not inlay a S/N with gold, (hopefully common sense and sensible reasoning prevail)). My interpretation (and many others) is that all other information can be "altered"
Call C Sharps to see if they will make one for you in-the-white (406) 932-4353. I don't specifically know.
Hope this helps.

 

[JJ Roberts]

I had a client who wanted me to engrave his 870 Remington pump shot gun it had roll stamped scrolls engraving on both side he called Remington and purchased a receiver with no roll stamping I engraved scrolls and game scene's on the gun nice canvas for engraving. J.J.

 

[SamW]

As I understand it, the law requires a maker's name and location in addition to serial number on actions/frames. The removal referenced in the article applied to the lettering on the slide, an item that can be purchased with blank sides but Colt puts a lot of lettering on the slides.

 

[Crossbolt]

In Issue no. 128 of "The Engraver" Layne Z. states in his article that, "the first order of business was to remove all factory lettering." This caught my attention because I thought that removing factory information was against the law. I know it is against the law to remove serial numbers, but how much of factory information can be remover from a firearm? C Sharps makes 1885 Winchester actions and they stamp their company information on the side of the action. This takes up engraving space. It would be nice to be able to remove it. I'm not sure they are still making them but they did in the past.

For another data point. Imported guns, per BATFE Form 6, must have maker, address and country of origin markings and it must be added if not present ( min 1/16" high and 0.003" deep)

 

[BCan]

Hello Friends,
Here is a link to an ATF quarterly bulletin from way back in 2001. Although it deals mainly with the impressing (rolling) or engraving of importer or manufacturer's identification requirements, it does give the impression that the ATF would not be pleased with the removal of same however legal opinions are better left to lawyers. Also, some individual states expressly forbid the removal or altering of any information on a firearm. Hope this helps.

https://www.atf.gov/file/57906/download

 

[JMiller]

What if a SN is barely legible, can it be recut and or moved on the action/ frame? I have tried to research this but find little to no info on this topic aside from SN being restored on firearms in a crime/ investigation or recut/ assigned a new one due to age. I know it is illegal to alter the SN but is it illegal to recut and or move it?....
I have seen pictures of older shotguns/ rifles with the SN done in gold but has been a while and maybe my memory is playing tricks.
I know this question is better answered by ATF which is on my list of been meaning to....

 

[jerrywh]

How about moving the serial number to another location on the gun??
I once bought sharps in the white from C sharps by the way.

 

[Dave London]

TOS
i have used a angle grinder with sanding disc on 1911 slide. Got to be light and fast handed. LOL

 

[Brant]

The short answer is call your local ATFE.

Moving a serial number requires a manufacturers license and written permission from ATFE each time you want to do this.

Removal of information is not very clear or consistent. Talking with my local agents yields two different answers, one said you cannot remove anything and another one said only the serial number needs to remain.

The safe move would be to get an email confirmation from ATFE on each instance and keep a copy with the paperwork for each individual job.

Nobody ever said that dealing with the Federal government would be easy or make any sense.

Just my way of dealing with this, I am not a lawyer, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[AllenClapp]

In an earlier discussion like this, I remember someone admonishing everyone to leave the serial number where it is, because part of the BATFE record system to identify weapons is that they know where to look for each model. I can't remember if that also included the name. Names can be in multiple places, especially on 1911 clones. The part with the serial number is the item to worry about, not the slide. I would not touch a serial number or manufacturer's name info on the serial numbered piece without getting a BATFE opinion letter. I had correspondence with them last year about when you needed a dealers license if you engraved firearms. They were very responsive with a timely, well-written reply. If you have the desire to move a serial number or name, I suggest that you ask for an opinion and share it with us. I would be very specific about what firearm, what lettering is on it, where the lettering is located, and what of that you want to move or remove. It will take a few weeks, but it shouldn't be too bad a wait. [As an aside, their answer to me was essentially the following. The requirement for a dealers license hinges on whether you are IN THE BUSINESS of engraving firearms. I can engrave my own firearms for my pleasure, engrave firearms to be donated to charity for a raffle, or engrave firearms for a friend without a license, so long as I do not charge or barter for the work. I can even take custody of a friend's firearm for a few days while doing the work; he doesn't have to stay with it while the work is being done. However, if I ever charge or barter for any engraving work on a firearm, I will need a dealers license and do all the recordkeeping. Even if that work is only something like re-cutting letters that someone almost sanded off.]

 

[BrianPowley]

It seems as if someone at ATF recently has a fixation on the "serial" number .
At one time, I had an agent tell me that as long as I replaced the SN in the approximate location it came from the factory, it would be ok to remove it in order to restore the gun. It was even ok to make it as fancy as I wanted-----as long as it was the same number. Back then, altering the SN was either removing it or changing it.
About a year ago, I was in some discussions that the ATF now claims re-cutting or gold inlaying the SN technically is altering it....and that is illegal.
I have no proof that is their policy, and I could have called an agent, but I have no desire to.