Critique Request Scroll Drawing

[Nathan Ott]

I'd like to see what everyone thinks of this. Bear in mind, I haven't read Advanced Drawing of Scrolls, though I'm going to order it as soon as my refining check gets here. :yes And I've never been shown how to draw these by anyone, although I've attempted to understand some of the posts about it.

I'm sure there are some mistakes, but I'd love to correct them. So please, critique away.

 

[John B.]

Nathan,
Lots to like here, great first effort.
Nits to pick.....maybe.
But just a little more drawing and Ron's study book and you'll be in tall cotton.
Best, John.

 

[Ron Smith]

Okay Nathan,

You are doing good with balance, background spaces, leaf mass consistancy, with just a few infractions.

Most glaring thing to me is the cluster of leaves that are completley unlike anything else. I call this a focal point. It is sort of unrelated. Watch for clutter in your design. You want focal points to be planned, not accidental.

Next, there are a few gaps in your design/composition and these effect the balance just a bit. They appear in the crotches of the spirals and a couple of background spaces. If you will go and blacken in the background, I think you will expose some things you don't see right now, but that I am talking about.

Even if you don't intend to do any background work, it is good to blacken in your drawings as a final critique of your own work. You will be surprised often with what that will reveal.

You have a diversity in leave style and that doesn't bother me too much unless It creates a problem with spacing. I would consider this a style apart from the ordinary, but that is not wrong, only that structural rules must be followed regardless of style.

That is an exttremely nice design and you can't tell me you haven't been drawing. You are doing well. Now refine it down to absolute shading lines like you would get when you engrave a line. This is pretty sketchy, and you can't get a fuzzy line with a graver so you have to know precisely how and where to put the lines for effect.

You want the lines to mean or create something, not just fill space.

Sam had a pretty good explaination of this in a just previous tutorial. Check it out.

All in all, and depending on who is looking at it, I would say this is a very nice drawing and will only take a minimal of some corrections that I mentioned.

I always suggest that one uses tracing paper to draw on, and you can fold the paper, being able to see through it, and redraw keeping the parts that are acceptable and excluding the parts that are worrysome, and refining what you have to a precise finished drawing, making your rounds very round, shading precise, and all the while refining and defining everything within the composition. The more you work with an idea, the more ideas you get if you don't get tunnel vision in the process, if you know what I mean.

Hope this helps.

Ron S

 

[Nathan Ott]

Thanks guys I really appreciate the input.

Ron, that cluster of leaves you were talking about is the first thing that bothered me after I scanned the image into my computer. There are a lot of little things I don't like about it.

I've been drawing scroll-like images since I was in high school, though until recently I didn't really know what they were. Just patterns I mentally scavenged from bits of furniture, architecture and old iron work. Now my problem is trying to apply direction to something I always did chaotically. I want to execute my scrolls correctly and make my engraving something I can be proud of.

I was trained by goldsmith who had little knowledge of engraving but it has been something that fascinated me since I saw my first hand engraved antique ring. All of my engraving knowledge has come from James B. Meek's book, Sam's website, along with this forum, and a lot of trail and error. Even now I look at pieces I engraved a few month's ago and quiver. But that's natural right?

Edit: In agreement with John I've pulled the second scroll down to focus on the first.

 

[John B.]

Hi Nathan,
I don't want to be a wet blanket....."BUT" (per Andrew.)
Your first drawing was MUCH better.
This is over complex at this stage.
You have many more errors in this one....a step backwards, sorry to say.
Maybe Ron, Andrew or Sam (if he has time) can give you some help.
Don't like raining on your parade but I gave you the first atta-boy above, and feel a little responsible for maybe getting you to take too big a step too soon.
Best wishes.

 

[Nathan Ott]

Don't feel bad Jon. Like I said I drew the second one before I read any of the replies to my post, so it wasn't influenced by them. I was sitting at the dinner table sketching on a piece of computer paper while I talked with friends, the scroll probably started to ramble because I was paying half attention to it. I want my scrolls to be "correct", in that aim I think correction is more helpful than praise, even if it is harsh, which yours by no means was. I'm not about to give up, so no worries there.

 

[Ron Smith]

Let's anylize this according to what I said before.

I see several clutter (John B's comment) situations and it doesn't look finished as the little scrolls surrounding most of the design should surround the whole design.

There is a lot of confusion in the design which could be enhanced with good knowledge of shading, but overlaps should be balanced through the design. Everything is of the same tone which is part of the confusion.

You have some good design ideas if you can get them to balance out throughout the composition. It looks a little helter skelter.

You have a very good start and now you need to refine elements and make them solid. I call this defining your work.

Have you read the (my) first post? You need a little more knowledge in spiral structure, only refinement actually. "Rounds are round" etc. as I said.

More exact definition and you didn't background or black the background. This will reveal a lot about balance and such.

In my book, I have spiral and leaf progression charts that give you structural rules and show you how to draw many leaf structures a line at a time. I wrote this book because there was a lot left out of Meek's book regarding structure. I sort of filled in the blanks......I hope.

Anyway, try some of the things I suggested and let's see what you get. Also it is good to find out how to evaluate and anylize your own stuff and you do that by learning the rules. Get them into your mind solid and use them as you draw, not after.

You can't avoid mistakes if you don't know what mistakes you are making.

Think before you draw. Don't go blindly by habit. You are trying to eliminate the things that don't work and find the things that do.

You are doing very well Nathan.

Study first. Draw later............Now I can tell you have studied a lot already, as you have captured a lot of right things and I re-itterate that you have some good design ideas. Now you want to pursue the reasons grace exist and that is all about structure and proceedure, and intimacy with those things.

Forward!!

Ron S

Well, you have studied some good sources, but you didn't say you have studied my book.

I don't usually push my books, as they seem to sell themselves, but I think it would do you good.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Rock on Nathan!!

 

[Nathan Ott]

Ron,

First, thank you very much for the help. I'll try to apply your advice.

Second, I'm waiting on a refining check to order your book, among other things, including a new graver's ball. I got laid off today, so it's time for me to forge ahead on my own again. But for a while I'll be pinching my pennies together. :big grin:

 

[Ron Smith]

Boy do I understand that one. Been there done that all of my life.

Rock on!!

 

[Kevin P.]

Nathan, I'm ruder than Ron S and the always amicable Andrew.

"the scroll probably started to ramble because I was paying half attention to it.' These two guys are giving you a tutorial that you can't buy. You in turn should be giving this your full attention; the cost of a free tutorial.
Don't post and then give yourself excuses.
Necessarily blunt!
Kevin P.

 

[John B.]

Nathan,
Deeply sorry to hear of your lay off and hope you find something that pays soon.
If I may offer a little more advise on your drawing.
You might think of editing out the second one and just ask for help on your first design.
There are a few boo-boos there but easier to see and explain.
The second one is overwhelming and I'm not sure anyone could/would take the time to sort it all out and then explain it in an understandable fashion.
If you get the first one corrected and understood a lot of your goofs with the second one would not have been made.
As friend Ron said.....you have a lot of good ideas burried in your drawings.
It would be a shame to see you get the cart before horse.
Hope your refining check and other $$$$ things go right for you soon.
Will keep good thoughts.

 

[Nathan Ott]

I agree with you John. The second scroll was a little much. Since I wasn't as focused on it while drawing (Kevin :big grin as I was on the first, and it was definatetly a "cart-before-horse" design, I pulled it down.

I'll keep working on the first. When I get some time I'll post a revision.

Again, I really appreicate the advice, correction, and most of all the time spent in helping me with my designs. Also, thanks for the kind thoughts.

I'm moving forward and not to worried about getting some new business.