started with Hammer and Chissel the cheap and stone way

[Silberschweif]

You know I´m now infected with the engraver virus since a view months and dont have the money now for an pneumatic graver...
Whatever I try the "cheap" way not realy cheap with the lindsay Handpushgraver and sharpening Template for an 120 degree Graver but ...
The laast week i had a little more time for practice so I took a wonderfull Scroll from Arnaud he posted for practice and cut it every Day with Handpush, Hammer & Chissel.
The first 5 times i cut it in brass. Today I had a try in Sterling. The sterling was a little harder to cut but I only cutted over a view times. I want to cut it every day a few weeks maybe longer
I know I have a long long way to go but im a little proud of that very poor engraving.

I hope Arnaud won´t kill me for that


I have a Question about the Background removing. I´ve done it with burs and I know with the pneumatic tool you can stipple the background but how can I do it by hand ????

 

[dlilazteca]

Textured punch, you make and harden yourself and a chasing hammer is one way.

I've also done it with an ngraver number one and a chasing hammer.

Watch "Working on background" on YouTube
Working on background: https://youtu.be/ra4lsoNNGyI

 

[glstrcowboy]

There are templates available for background removal chisels and stippling punches. Some also use beading punches to texture the background after it has been lowered.

 

[dlilazteca]

Go in there with a flat, even out as much as you can, then make a textured punch, displace the metal to flatten out.

Saludos,

Carlos

 

[Silberschweif]

Thank you Mike & Carlos
I will do one today and maybe post it if Im ready with background punching

@carlos you have a very nice video section

 

[Thierry Duguet]

Hello, the proper way to remove the background is with a flat chisel, it is easier to control and will give a more even surface. If you have the time and the inclination you can stipple with a single point punch, in Belgium they have hand forge tools just for that purpose I am not sure you can find such a tool in the US, if you do not have a pneumatic tool you can use any type of vibrating tool.

 

[Silberschweif]

@ Thierry
I used a broken bur witch i grinded out of center. Used it with a rotary tool it works but its very hard to control.
Maybe my misstake was to do it with burs and not with a flat.
Can you show me a picture of that forged tool ? Maybe I can do it by mýself or buy it in belgium. Germany is not so far away
thx a lot

 

[sam]

If you're a beginner I would suggest keeping your background areas smaller if they're to be done in relief. If that's a 2" practice plate then that's an enormous amount of background to remove, and large areas like that are difficult and time consuming for a pro to keep perfectly flat.

For background removal I would suggest reviewing my tutorial on relief engraving at the iGraver Tutorials link above which shows how the area of negative space is outlined first, and then removed. For removal with hammer & chisel I would outline and then make repeated cuts with a square or 105° graver to remove the bulk of the material, and then texture with a punch.

For hammer & chisel work I find that a narrower graver such as square or 105 is nicer for cutting scrollwork than my usual 120 that I use in a handpiece. I love it in the handpiece but for H&C the 105 hits the sweet spot for me. Your mileage may vary.

 

[JJ Roberts]

For background removal I cross hatch the background with a single point graver,one slip with a rotary tool and your spending hours repairing if your lucky.Take your time. J.J.

 

[Barry Lee Hands]

There are a lot of ways to skin this cat, and cat skinning is always messy for a beginner, hehe.
Generally, I will cut my leaves and sculpt them with a round bottom. Then, I cut the scroll lines with a 116 degree, and the edges of the leaves also.
I have found, after many years of using a flat for background, that to relieve - I prefer to start with a round bottom to relieve the background, as it is easy to go quick, and I mean really quick- without making a mess of the edges. It als solves the problem of a high spot in the center of the negative space, because with a round bottom, the center becomes the low spot.
After the first relief pass with the round bottom I go in with a flat about .020 in or .5 mm, to flatten, then a .010 in flat to clean the corners, then touch up with a 90 v chisel all the original lines
Next I punch everything flat, stipple, recut with the 90 again, and stipple the fine edge again.
to fully sculpt and relieve a pair of scope rings, this takes about 6 days.
I am commenting, because I happen to be doing a pair of rings for a project and have a pic to share:

 

[Silberschweif]

Tank you very mutch @all
I really like this forum and the folks here.
Today i´ve learned a lot. At first sorry I´ve cutted it with the 110 degree graver there is an set at lindsay with the Chisselholder from Carl Beile and the Handpushgraver with an Diamond sharpening Stone and 110 V Template.
I have only that 110 sharpening Template.
My next order will bring a few more

The Pratice Plate is something about 30x25mm 1,18" in hight

Today I´ve done all the outlines with Hammer and Chissel only the shading lines and the final cut with the Handpushgraver.
The last days i´ve cut mutch too deep I´ve cutted three times less in one cut than yesterday. For Background removing I used a flat. I also did a texturing punch but after using the flat the selfmade stippling bur works very fine and I think I had 3 days to punch with the texturing punch. I´ve done the neg space in the inside of the scrolls with that.
I think the cutting from today is mutch better than the one from yesterday. It needed mutch more time but thats ok
I have to practice blackening but I think the time will come everything works fine...

Barry I will try it your way one of the next days If I can sharpen them by Hand

@ Thierry
I´ve seen you started a new theat about templates. I also try to draw my own designs but I think in the beginning of cutting it´s usefull to use templates to learn the right technik of cutting. If you know how to cut a design you know how to draw a design that works fine
The first thing I´ve bought was the book and dvd set from Lee Griffith

thx a lot
chris

 

[Thierry Duguet]

There are a lot of ways to skin this cat, and cat skinning is always messy for a beginner, hehe.
Generally, I will cut my leaves and sculpt them with a round bottom. Then, I cut the scroll lines with a 116 degree, and the edges of the leaves also.
I have found, after many years of using a flat for background, that to relieve - I prefer to start with a round bottom to relieve the background, as it is easy to go quick, and I mean really quick- without making a mess of the edges. It als solves the problem of a high spot in the center of the negative space, because with a round bottom, the center becomes the low spot.
After the first relief pass with the round bottom I go in with a flat about .020 in or .5 mm, to flatten, then a .010 in flat to clean the corners, then touch up with a 90 v chisel all the original lines
Next I punch everything flat, stipple, recut with the 90 again, and stipple the fine edge again.
to fully sculpt and relieve a pair of scope rings, this takes about 6 days.
I am commenting, because I happen to be doing a pair of rings for a project and have a pic to share:

Great picture, it explains a lot.

 

[Barry Lee Hands]

Great picture, it explains a lot.

Thanks Thierry, yes, a picture is worth a thousand words. . .

 

[LVVP]

Barry,

Looks amazing, thanks

 

[Mike Fennell]

Thanks for the explanation and photo, Barry. I really like that look. By the way, do you put a heel on your round graver? I need to experiment more with the round graver in various sizes.

Chris, you were wise to buy Lee's book and disc set. It is outstanding.

 

[Silberschweif]

This is a knife design i drawn last night. I ve bought a view cheap knifes for 3 $ piece for practice what do you think ? I know I have to work on the leaves. What is about Symetry shoud both sides more like the same ? Or it is for a knife better to use one direction for the flow ?
Chris

 

[Silberschweif]

waiting for my new graverblanks takes 6 weeks shipping
Today ive cutted the drawn design with hammer and chissel steel is mutch easyer to control I changed a few things the design was a little to big