steel engraving and Damascus question

[nhcowboy1961]

Hi all, just wanted to post a fun project I just had to do-engrave into steel and I was surprised that it wasn’t the nightmare I thought it would be These are a pair of roller cinch buckles for a saddle done for the heck of it and try out my newly acquired skills from my GRS course-I’m still amazed at how much I learned and was able to implement-time and money very well spent.
I do have an inquiry for the group someone may be able to help me out with. At the suggestion of a client I am going to purchase Damascus steel to cut some spur rowels out of. I was wondering if there were any thoughts as to how well the steel would take to being drilled and ground away to form the rowel. I’ve never worked with Damascus (or seen it in person for that matter) so just wondered if it would cleave between layers or be overly hard to cut on my band saw etc.-thanks for any advice, I appreciate it.
Paul

 

[monk]

it is composed of alternating layers of harder then softer material. depending on the hardness of the harder material, it might be a problem. see if the manufacturer can give you a bit of info on the stuff. if not , proceed with caution till you see how it will work. my instinct is that it will work ok. BTW, the layering will not delaminate.

 

[Tim Wells]

I assume you're talking about carbon damascus and not stainless. If you have a metal cutting bandsaw you'll be just fine. I made my first knife out of it and then heat treated and tempered it when I was through, then etched it. It's no big deal at all, cuts about like cold rolled steel.

Go to Radio Shack and pick up a bottle of circuit board etchant. It looks kind of brown in the bottle and that is what you etch the damascus with after you have it shaped and polished out like you want. Just pour some in a container that you can dip that rowel in and you can watch it work, less than a minute I'd expect. To neutralize it just use windex with ammonia, not the fruity smelling stuff. This type of steel will rust easily so put some Renaissance wax on it and you're done. You can order that wax through Texas Knifemakers Supply or I can pick a tube of it up at the Blade show for you this weekend and send it along.

 

[cowboy_silversmith]

Paul~ Otto Carter started a Bits, Buckles & Spurs forum last year. Their is a gentleman
by the name of Larry Fuegaen who fabricates and works in damascus quite a bit. I am
sure if you pose this question on that forum, Larry would undoubtedly reply with just
the right information you are looking for. Here is the link to that forum.
http://bitsandspurs.freeforums.org/index.php

Best regards,
Greg Pauline

 

[monk]

circuit board etchant

I assume you're talking about carbon damascus and not stainless. If you have a metal cutting bandsaw you'll be just fine. I made my first knife out of it and then heat treated and tempered it when I was through, then etched it. It's no big deal at all, cuts about like cold rolled steel.

Go to Radio Shack and pick up a bottle of circuit board etchant. It looks kind of brown in the bottle and that is what you etch the damascus with after you have it shaped and polished out like you want. Just pour some in a container that you can dip that rowel in and you can watch it work, less than a minute I'd expect. To neutralize it just use windex with ammonia, not the fruity smelling stuff. This type of steel will rust easily so put some Renaissance wax on it and you're done. You can order that wax through Texas Knifemakers Supply or I can pick a tube of it up at the Blade show for you this weekend and send it along.

tim: will this stuff etch hard steel or brass ??

 

[firefly]

Paul,

Having made a lot of this stuff, I can give you a little insight. Mr. Wells is right in saying that carbon damascus will cut, grind, and file just like any unhardened steel. For the highest contrast, buy material that includes one part high-nickel steel, or even pure nickel in the mix. Pure nickel isn't the thing to put on a cutting edge, but for spur rowels, it ought to be just the ticket. Alternately, look for damascus that has the alloy L-6, 15N20, or 203E in the mix. Any of those will give a really high contrast after etching.

The etchant you asked about is ferric chloride, and used to be sold at Radio Shack as a circuit board etchant, and is used to etch away the copper on curcuit boards. It's normally mixed 3:1 or 4:1 with water. There have been problems for some lately in finding it at Radio Shack, so you may have to look elsewhere if you don't find it there.

With the the nickel alloy, the etch is pretty quick, compared to an acid etch. We knifemaking types will normally suspend a blade in the etchant for five minutes or so, take it out and scrub it off with a cloth under running water, ,then put it back in the etch for another five minutes. Fifteen to 20 minutes, total, ought to give a good etch. Play with the times a little to get what you want. You can then use a very fine (600 grit or so) paper on a flat backing to polish the tops, if you like, or go finer and finer to a mirror polish on the tops. You can also play with cold bluing, browning, and other finishes before polishing, if you like. Go lightly when you do this, so you don't wipe out the contrast.

The only real caveat in this process is to start with a nice, clean piece of damascus before you begin the etch. I've use acetone, but have gone to denatured alcohol as a prep cleaner. As Mr. Wells said, don't forget to neutralize it with an ammonia-based liquid (ammonia is cheaper than Windex) to neutralize the etchant when the etch is finished.

To answer your last question, ferric choride will etch brass and hardened steel.

Greg Neely

 

[ddushane]

Mix the PCB etchant solution 50/50 with distilled water, use latex or rubber gloves as it is a carcinogen. It will etch fairly quick, but if a deeper etch is desired, rub it with q-tip and put back in the acid, you can get several different looks depending on how you do it, play with it. when finished, like said above, put the wax on it or 3in1 oil. I use a lot of damascus, and have been engraving some here lately. Good luck, Call me if you have any more questions at 432-894-3246, Dwayne

 

[Tim Wells]

I don't know about brass, never tried it. This is what brings out the difference in metals in damascus, otherwise you will barely be able to tell it is damascus after you polish it. It brings out the contrast and etches them both but not to the same degree, hence the contrast.

I wrote this before reading the rest of the posts. As for finding the etchant at radio shack; I got lucky and found one with two bottles on the shelf and bought them both. They told me they can order them still but many of the smaller stores don't stock it due to low demand in that area. I frankly don't think that there are as many people doing electronic experimentation/projects as there used to be because every radio shack I've visited in the last several years seems to have shrunk in it's inventory if not actual square footage of store space.

 

[KCSteve]

Sounds like everyone's gotten the 'damascus' part of your post answered, so I'll take the other part.

Nice work!

I particularly like the 'scroll through the flower' bit - looks nice.

And yes, with a powered graver steel cuts with no problems (well, most steel - I hear some alloys are a major pain).

 

[nhcowboy1961]

Wow

Thank thank you thank you all-for more information than I knew even exisited! Now I'm even more pumped up to try each and every tip and technique mentioned. I'm a firm believer in serendipity and pursuing something until I go nuts. Etching Damascus steel- I never would have guessed.
Always on the prowl for that extra edge in my work your guys' techniques and tips will serve me well- I LOVE this group! When I order the damscus and have some rowels cut I'll be sure to post how they came out. Attached is a picture of the McChesney web style rowel I make (lots of filing which I absolutely love to do) that I plan on using the damascus for. It's hoped that the contoured deep filed parts will really highlight the damascus like cameo, and now that I know about etching it too-Dayum!
Thanks again for all the help, it's incredibly pricless and highly appreciated.
Paul