Steve's Forum

[Ray Cover]

Steve has ask me to post this.

There has been some discussion about who is and who isn't welcome at www.engravingforum.com. I would like everyone to know they are welcome. The forum was established for AirGraver customers to help each other, however it doesn't matter what tool you are using if you would like to join in on the discussions. If you are an engraver, you are welcome to join in.

Steve

 

[sam]

I'm glad to hear this, Ray.

Since the Cafe has links to Steve's forum, do you think he could provide links back to us?
Cheers / ~Sam

 

[Ray Cover]

I will ask Sam

Ray

 

[Jim-Iowa]

Glad to hear that myself! While I have never signed on over there, I lurk some and enjoy reading the posts there as well.....

 

[Brian Marshall]

Simple stuff...

Steve Lindsays' site was built as his "company" site. His forum was begun specifically to assist owners of Lindsay tools. No one has ever been kept out, just discouraged from touting other products, those similar to what Steve makes - or plans to offer. That is certainly his right as the man who pays the bills. Anyone who wants to participate in his forum - understanding that single limitation - is more than welcome.

Sam Alfano is an employee of GRS as well as the owner of this site/forum. He gets to make his choices because he pays the bills over here. Even though he has chosen to make this forum "open" to all conversation regarding hand engraving, and he has chosen to link to Lindsay - there is an "undercurrent" going on here. The two companies are in direct competition/conflict.

This makes things awkward, it just isn't comfortable to try and mesh the two from Steve's side. He does what he can to keep things amiable, in fact just yesterday he posted a link over to this very thread. He hasn't time to do it regularly, and neither does Ray, who is the moderator over there. During all this stuff that goes on on the forums - first and foremost - they both have businesses to run.

Most people on both forums seem to understand why things are the way they are... a few may never understand... There is no "that's not fair to me" involved. What's "fair" - is solely determined by the man who pays the bills. If you wanna pay 'em, then you can have your own sandbox.

Do you suppose that Chevrolet has links on their site - to forum sites that are owned by employees of Ford? Do you think that GRS, the company, would be willing to put up a link to Lindsay? This is perfectly normal behavior on the part of any business. Sam has been able to step outside of this somehow... good for him!

Steve has no dedicated "Links" page. There is a page for those looking for hand engravers to do jobs for them - but no particular engraver is recommended, and none allowed advertise/link on that page. Those who have chosen to give their opinions on his tools are allowed a link on the "Testimonials" page. That's pretty much it.

The independent schools and teachers listed on the Lindsay site MUST be able to furnish any make and model of Lindsay tools to students. That's the ONLY requirement. They can furnish, as I do, everything else ever made - in addition to that...

I have offered the opportunity to try the Lindsay tools for the past 6 out of 8 years that I have taught. The GRS tools have been part of the school and my studio for well over 30 years now, and NGraver too... I believe that doing this helps the students to make a decision based on their own personal experiences with ALL the tools, not just what they are allowed to see.

In the end, we are all extremely lucky that forums of this kind exist at all! Are any of us ready to shoulder the expenses and responsibilities that they entail? PLUS the HUGE toll in hours? They are BOTH invaluable resources and should be treated and treasured as such. Respecting the wishes of others, especially those who offer us such an opportunity at no cost to ourselves is a very small thing to ask.

That's it -- in the proverbial nutshell. (Well... maybe a larger coconut shell?)

Brian P. Marshall
Stockton Jewelry Arts School
Stockton, CA, USA
209-477-0550
instructor@jewelryartschool.com
jewelryartschool@aol.com

 

[Keone]

The two companies are in direct competition/conflict.

Actually it would be a good for Steve and GRS to link to each other from their forums and websites.
Search engines, especially Google, look at the relevance of incoming -and- outgoing links.
What I see both companies do wrong is excessive linking between their own websites in the same IP range ( C-blocks)

Sure both are competitors, but people who visit Steve his site and forum also know about the GRS tools, and it is not likely they will make a $3000 investment without knowing about other tools anyway.

Marketing wise it would be good to talk and link to your competitors as it is relevant.
Both tools are the same but still different. This is not a "I have the cheapest tool so buy it from me" competition.

Nothing awkward about letting people know you are not afraid about telling them about the "competition" It actually builds trust.

In SEO (search engine optimization) it is not about the number of links but about the importance and relevancy.

I have brought more than 15 websites to a number 3 and up position with just a few incoming links.
The difference between spot 2 and 1 in Google is 30% more clicks. another reason why I rather exchange links with my competitors and get the number one position. More visitors is more sales.

Just a tip from someone who has done a lot of SEO.

 

[Tim Wells]

That's the first time I've read how that works Keone. Mighty interesting.

 

[norsksea]

I thinks it's great that there is now 3 engraving forums
Steve's Engraving Forum
Sam's Engraver's Cafe
FEGA Forum and magazine
I enjoy all the forums for the information about engraving, the FEGA magazine also shows some great engravings and artists.
Do links to each site matter? I use my bookmarks to get to each.
Honesty I didn't know The Engraver's Cafe was around until Steve Lindsay told me about it on the phone. When I got over here I joined because of what I read.
I have a Gravermax at home and a PalmControl I use at work out at sea to practice engraving
I also had the opportunity to go to a Basic GRS engraving course taught by Marty Rabeno. That was the best week I ever spent learning. I want to learn about engraving everything I can.
To me the engraver's talent, these artists and what they are willing to share through all the forum's, magazines, knife + gun shows, schools and tools is the most important to me.
Frank

 

[Bill Brockway]

Ray -

This morning, I went to Steve's site to access his forum, and guess what? The link to his forum is missing from his list of "sister sites." Does this mean Steve has closed out his forum? I can't find it anywhere. If so, this is a great loss to the engraving community, and one I hate to see happen.

Bill

 

[Keone]

It's still there. The forum, the link is not.

http://www.engravingforum.com

 

[Bill Brockway]

Keone -

Found it. Thanks for the link.

 

[Peter E]

It seems that the Lindsay Forum is ......well GONE???

Perhaps it is just a temporary issue of some sort.

Peter

 

[ihsfab]

Try this Peter http://www.engravingforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2

 

[coincutter]

While upgrading the forum software something went amuck
and the loading process dropped the link.
Steve is aware of it and fixing it, the forum is not going anywhere
puters are so much fun

 

[Cody]

puters are so much fun

Yeah, in a "root canal without anesthetic" sort of way.

Cody

 

[Doc Mark]

Hey, don't go pickin' on root canals, they bought me all this 'gravin stuff. Although, the anesthetic does seem to help some wimpy patients.

Mark

 

[FANCYGUN]

anesthetic .....???????????? what the heck is that? why doesn't anyone tell me about things? Here all the time I've been using pinnapple juice