trial and tribulations
- Thread starter papart1
- Start date
Leland Davis
Elite Cafe Member
Paps, much better. Take your inside elements all the way to the backbone it will make it much easier to background. The top left scroll is coming off backwards but is well cut. Your inside is well spaced keep in mind this is my opinion and I know nothing.
Good job keep at it.
Leland
Good job keep at it.
Leland
Ditto Leland's comments...much better backbone. Now work on the inside elements.
yes. it is getting better. imho, engraving is a journey, not a destination. don't forget to enjoy what you're learning. date your practice plates. such provides proof of improvement. besides, gives one a bit of lettering practice, never a bad thing.
I guess the "Journey" would include the just enlightened reverse top left scroll,,, duh. Thanks gents for the acknowledgement. Mr. Leland what do you mean by taking my inside elements al the way to the backbone please?
This is what he means...
Leland Davis
Elite Cafe Member
Paps, your inside elements should touch the backbone on the inside like in Sam's incredible design.
I don't see his design touching the backbone...........I see elements "bunched" for lack of better term into an approximate ratio of one line end to 2-4 elements combined together. None of which touch.....actually touch the back bone. I was instilled by my mentor Sam Alfano TO NOT TOUCH THE BACKBONE with inside elements, back in 2016. If anyone else can explain Mr. TOS's design pictoral projection....please assist me, bt this is how I can visually explain what I see. paps
I think its not so much the touching as the amount of space between the elements and the backbone. If you think of making a cut, it has depth and width. The width of the cut is what is important here.
Don't think of it as touching the background. Think of it as engraving just enough space between the element and the backbone to put in a small amount of black. On SamW's example there are sections of the scroll where there is a lot of black, but that is between the elements and not between the scroll background and the elements.
Now if you go back and look at your scroll, there is too much space between the elements and the scroll background. If you draw the leaves to the scroll, and then look at the pencil line between the scroll and the leaf, then cut the pencil line, the result is a lot closer to SamW's sample.
And you have done it on your scroll. Look at the next to the last leaf going to the center of the scroll. That's basically it.
Don't think of it as touching the background. Think of it as engraving just enough space between the element and the backbone to put in a small amount of black. On SamW's example there are sections of the scroll where there is a lot of black, but that is between the elements and not between the scroll background and the elements.
Now if you go back and look at your scroll, there is too much space between the elements and the scroll background. If you draw the leaves to the scroll, and then look at the pencil line between the scroll and the leaf, then cut the pencil line, the result is a lot closer to SamW's sample.
And you have done it on your scroll. Look at the next to the last leaf going to the center of the scroll. That's basically it.
The space between tendril/leaf and backbone is the width of a single cut. It is more a matter of consistency. With a good bit of extra time one could make them actually touch but I don't see that as needed. When I draw the scroll on the metal, they touch.
When looked at with naked eye, the space of a line between tendril and backbone adds definition to the tendril elements as well as the backbone.
When looked at with naked eye, the space of a line between tendril and backbone adds definition to the tendril elements as well as the backbone.
dcurrie911
Elite Cafe Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2012
- Messages
- 265
papart1, perhaps this picture will help clarify. look At the red lines in each. As Sam said his leaves and tendrils are only separated from the adjacent backbone by a cut width unlike yours.
the red line depiction indicates my lack of touching the element side of the scroll. One spot does......but that is coincidental. I see the defined negative spaces between Sam's scroll work now that the touching the inside of the scroll backbone to isolate each individual area of negative/black spaces. I thank you Mr. Currie and again Mr. Welch. Rob
dcurrie911
Elite Cafe Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2012
- Messages
- 265
Your welcome. The next thing to notice is the distance between each leaf/tendril. On Sam’s maim scroll I count 13 leaf/tendrils and on yours I count 8. While there is nothing technically wrong with dead space between features most people like to have more leaves and less dead space.
Rob, I had the same reaction when I first started studying scroll...'they didn't really touch'. But came to realize the need for a smooth continuous line for the backbone to make the scroll look right to the naked eye. Not to mention it made cutting the backbone doable.
If you like open scroll like what you have cut here, there is a style called Vine scroll you might check out. The inner elements are different from what you have done but it is that open.
If you like open scroll like what you have cut here, there is a style called Vine scroll you might check out. The inner elements are different from what you have done but it is that open.
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