What is the best way to temper a graver?

GeorgeKhayata

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Nov 17, 2006
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Hi Sam,
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to join the cafe, it is great to share other engravers the skill and the experience, I have been doing hand engraving for over 27 years, we don't have school back home to teach engraving, I learned by my self, thank God who gave the gift to do it.
My question is about what is the best way to temper a graver, I do engraving on jewelry, but I am trying to engrave my hand gun but I'm having trouble with my graver.
Your edvice is highly appreciated, thanks again.
George
 

Sam

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Hello George, and welcome to the Cafe. I never temper my gravers, so I'm not in a position to answer your question. I use out-of-the-box gravers for the majority of my work, and carbide square blanks which I shape into flats and 120's. I don't think modern gravers require tempering like some of the old ones. Maybe someone else can shed some light on this.

E.C. Prudhomme would fashion tools from drill rod, heat them to yellow, and quench them in a small can of solid beeswax. He would let the tool remain in the beeswax until it reached room temperature. He claimed this was a one-shot operation that hardened the tool and drew it back without the need for reheating to straw color, etc. I've done this with many punches, but not with gravers, and I give you information for whatever it's worth. / ~Sam
 

Yves Halliburton

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George, ???. What type of firearm. Is it hard stainless. Is it case hardened. These types of metals and finishes will make it very difficult to engrave.
 

Mike Cirelli

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If your using water cooled drill rod you can shape your tool coat with soap heat to cherry red. Quench straight in and back out quick, hold in air for a second and resubmerge back to the water. That will harden and temper in one shot. It's not the best way as it takes some practice to get a feel for it, but it's quick.

The best way is to wipe the tool in soap heat to cherry red (which is more orange) quench straight in water not sideways till cool. Then clean off scale, I use a scotch brite pad. Heat slowly keep the heat source at the center of the tool. Watch the colors move up the tool light straw being the hardest going to softest where the heat is. I think I explained that right.
Mike
 

KSnyder

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when i harden/ temper tool steel I do it a little different than Mike. I heat till cherry red , actually looks bright orange to me too, then quench in 10w motor oil. Sometimes water will produce stress cracks. If the tool is hard a file will slip right over it.Next polish it bright.Now you need to temper it. One way is to fill a small can (tuna) with clean fine sand and set it over the gas stove burner on your kitchen range. Place the tool on / in the sand (before it gets too hot) and watch for the color in good light.It should take about 2 beers.:D Light straw is what you need for a graver. When the color looks right, remove the graver from the sand and allow to air cool.The advantage of sand is it heats slowly and gives good even temper. Another way is get a fairly thick flat piece of cold roll steel 1/4th inch and secure in vise. Place polished tool/graver on top & heat from bottom with torch, color will come up pretty fast so watch closely. When color is right pull it off & air cool .Its hard to drink beer this way though, I prefer the sand method. In all seriousness, use gloves to avoid burns & have good ventilation.
Kent
 

Cody

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Nov 10, 2006
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I can't help regarding the temper for gravers, however, regarding the hardening process this is what I do for frizzens and springs and has worked very well. In regards to the heat, rather than going to "cherry red", I determine critical with a magnet. When the piece will no longer attract a magnet, you've reached critical and can be quenched. This is the same state that is achieved with "cherry red" however, "cherry red" is a different colour to different people and the proper colour looks different in different light conditions. The magnet just eliminates that variable. For quenching, a freind of mine, Jerry Huddleston, suggested to use water with about 1/8 - 1/4" of automatic transmission fluid on top. The oil reduces the shock that water alone imparts and the water cools faster providing maximum hardness.

Cody
 

KSnyder

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Cody, I gotta tell you, I've put together many flintlocks and hardened / tempered many frizzens, I dont know of any of my gunsmith friends that use water for a quench. I myself cracked a frizzen in half from a Davis lock,using water as a quench, ouch!:( I always got a can of lightweight oil for quenching small parts under my bench. Oil always works for the carbon steels.
When i harden drill rod for making gravers , oil is my choice.
You cant go wrong to bring the steel up past magnetic either.
my $.02
Kent
 

Glenn

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Cody,
You are right on as far a crital temperature range to heat treating. Quenching in oil is my first choice. The old timers like me and Sam's Dad will heat up a little lead to a molten state then insert the part for 1 to 4 minutes. This depends on the size of part. Gravers get 1 minute. When you remove the part it will be a straw color (just right). If you don"t believe me just ask Sam's Dad. Good Luck
 

Cody

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Kent, you are right. Jim Chambers recommends oil for frizzens and I've heard of them cracking from useing water. However, the springs I've made have been made from O-1 which is oil hardening and with room temp water with the oil on top, I've never had a failure and Jerry has done hundreds this way and to my knowledge has never had a failure due to the quench. The accepted rule of thumb is when in doubt, use oil. I haven't done frizzens for a few years and can't really recall if I used oil or the oil/water quench on them. I have made springs more recently and even spent two days making a pair of roller frizzen springs and even with all that work invested had no hessitation in useing the oil/water quench. If it had been recommended by anyone else, I may have reservations. I certainly wouldn't bat an eye at doing gravers this way. As for frizzens, the two that I have to do will be case hardened then shod so i won't be doing the same quench but I will double check on that and report what i find out. As far as heating past critical, it's my understanding that if steel is heated much past critical, it will burn and be ruined.

Glenn, I use lead to temper springs as it melts at the correct temp for springs, if I recall correctly, at about 680deg. I coat them in soot from a kerosene lamp to prevent the lead from sticking and they come out a beautiful and very durable black. Gravers could be drawn in a regular oven in a can of sand but a thermometer will be needed that will cover the desired temp as the oven settings aren't accurate enough and serve only as a guide.

Cody
 

GeorgeKhayata

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Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Messages
58
Thanks for you all

Thanks for all who replyed to my question,
The type of hand gun that I have is Smith & Wesson 9mm. part of it was made from soft metal wich is easy to engrave but the top part is hard steel.
I learned a lot from this forum, special thanks to Mr Alfano who created it.
George:)
 

monk

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you have to first know your alloy to do the job correctly. some steels are water quenched. some are oil quenched. and lets not forget our favorite quench, good old fashioned brine. if the tempering process yields a tool thats too soft, or too hard, most of the alloys can be heat treated many, many times, without undue damage. one must be careful to avoid overheating, for this will drive carbon out of the steel and you're gonna lose the game at this point. there is an excellent paperback book by a guy named weygers, or something close to that. this book is truly gospel for people wanting to learn this procedure. it's actually about blacksmith work, but goes into detail about home heat treating.
 

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