Working in the Negative

[Steve Adams]

It's been a while since I've posted anything, so I thought I'd share a "Last Supper" die I am about to wrap up. It is about 95% done. This will be for a hammered aluminum tray. This project has been ongoing for some time now, as are some others. It's good to be back in the swing of things and getting things done at last.
It all starts out with a hand engraved a pattern two times larger than the engraved design area. I set up a Gorton pantograph at 2:1 and engrave flat levels, then lines to indicate areas to model. Then it is off to the bench where I use chisels for the bulk of the 3D work, although a foredom flex shaft is used quite a bit as well. I go back and forth between the machine and bench because each time I model, I lose my indication lines. Eventually I don't even use cutters in the machine, but instead use spindle mounted scribe tools to basically draw on the steel. These lines keep showing me proper placement of detail so I can model. As detail become finer, I start using punches and gravers. Once the modeling is complete, I use mold and diemaker stones to smooth imperfections.

 

[Billzach]

Steve, you keep amazing me with your talent, thank you for sharing this project with us..

 

[SharpGraver]

WOW!!! your talent is really amazing. how do you learn something like that?

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Steve

Simply amazing!! Goodness knows it's hard enough to think in the positive.................but to think back to front and in reverse is another ball game altogether.

I'd be keen to see the whole thing finished. What's a hammered aluminium tray?

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Steve Adams]

Thanks guys. I will eventually try to get some photos on of the final product.

 

[Tira]

Fabulous and fascinating! Thanks for showing the pictures in progress. Please post a picture of the finished tray when it's done. How many aluminum trays may be made from a single die like this one? What is the "life span" of the original before it would start to show wear? Thanks.

 

[Steve Adams]

Tira,
With proper care ( cleaning between pieces, and stored with film of oil ) the original die in a soft state will last a good 700 to 1,000 pieces before needing touched up again. If you heat treat the die, the number of pieces increases dramatically including the life span. A soft die even touched up will get to the point that sharpening it up is no longer practical. With heavy use and several touch ups, it will produce approximately 3,000 to 5,000 pieces. Heat treat the same die, and it will produce three times as much before showing wear. It is important to note that a hardened die can be annealed ( softened ) and touched up if necessary.

 

[Tira]

Thanks for the information Steve. It sounds like a very cool process.

 

[sdcoxx]

Hello Steve,
Good to hear you are getting back into the swing of engraving...
Working in the negitive is difficult for me to get my into my head...
Thanks for the insight into the die making process.
Take Care,
Stephen

 

[Roger Bleile]

Steve,

Please take a look at my comments in Andrew's thread "How light came into the world." I made reference to making dies and would like your input on the process.

Thanks,

Roger

 

[gtsport]

Great work, Steve. Hey, wait a minute... I think I see a secret message hidden in the engraving. It looks like...Mopar or no car.

Joe

 

[Steve Adams]

Roger, I will take a look at those comments this evening. Joe, I didn't think anyone would find that.

 

[Sam]

Work like this just shows the rest of us how much we don't know about engraving.

Masterful job, Steve. Just incredible.

 

[Tezash]

Thank you for sharing us, this is real engraving. I am interested with die engraving and I have a question for you: Why do you need touch ups? Can you define touch ups? Can you use unhardened die for production on the press? If you anealed the hardened die several times, I would imagine that the die would lose its Carbon content during the anealing process, so the die may not get hard enough for press (63 - 64 Rock Well hardness). Sorry it is many questions, what do you think from your experience?
Thank you again, Tez.

 

[Steve Adams]

Tez,
I will everyone's questions tonight, but I will define touch up right now. I simply mean sharpening up the die again with fresh detail. The process of hammering metal into the die and cleaning the die can be abrasive, so if too much detail is worn away, I re-engrave those areas that have lost detail or sharpness.

 

[Mike Cirelli]

Steve the quality of your work is superb. Maybe you could post the pictures individually. The different steps in the die making procedure is very interesting.

 

[Steve Adams]

Okay, here we go, answer time. I shall try to pass on some knowledge regarding some earlier questions.
Roger, I went to the Andrews thread at your suggestion, and here is the input I think you might want. Let me first start by saying that is awesome work, Andrew. I work mostly on dies and sculpts for production, but having worked on a number of one of a kind pieces, I think I can see both sides of the coin, so to speak. True, the one of a kind piece comes with a healthy price tag and is highly prized, but it is nice to supplement income with production pieces of a nice design. As already stated previously, and I agree, marketing knowledge is the key. Investment in production has to turn a profit obviously, a risk some don't want, but there are rewards if done correctly.
Andrew's bracelet design could be easily done in a die. There would be several methods to do this. If you wanted an exact copy of the original, you could pull a mold from the engraved bracelet while flat. This mold would be used to produce masters for an etching process similar to die sinking. It is a gradual etching with acid and it can duplicate a design in less than one day for something this shallow. I first saw this method used in New York by a die sinker, and it should not be confused with diesinking with a hob. Die sinking is pressing a hardened male hob design into soft steel to create a die. Hobs can also be drawn from hardened steel dies to produce more dies of the same design. Some die sinkers use strictly high tonnage to hob dies, others use a tonnage and acid etch combination.
The design can also be engraved in a die directly, either by hand or a combination of hand and machine engraving. Detail and design can be as complex as you want, depending on how much time you want to spend. I really think many of the hand engravers on this site could accomplish this. It isn't all that complicated if you already have a good hand at engraving and modeling. Just think backwards and in reverse.
A reduction machine like a Jan-vier can make a die from a master sculpt. In this case, you make a plaster sculpt say about three or four times larger than the actual size you want. Once the sculpt is done, an rtv is made of the sculpt, then a hard expoxy is made from the rtv. This hard epoxy is used as a master on the reduction machine, tracing at one end, and cutting a reduced die at the other.
I do realize there may be more methods, but I am sticking with what I know best.
Now, what kind of die do you want? There are dies for die striking, die casting, and hand hammering. The best quality comes from striking, but hammering if done right comes in a close second. Casting is usually not quite as detailed. As shallow as a bracelet design is die striking would work okay. The design would be engraved in a slight cavity which the blank metal sits in while striking, This type of die is called a splash die. When the bracelet is struck, the metal stretches slightly, then the excess is trimmed off in a trim tool in a separate action. Left is annealing, patina, prefinishing, forming and final finish. This investment here is the engraved die, heat treating the die, the trim tool and making the product. Selling is a whole other story. I personally like the hammered method. It is cheap. The design is engraved on a flat die, and the bracelet would be produced with basic tools. A pretty cheap and unique method that mantains craftsmanship.
Tez, Yes you can use a soft (unhardened) die for hammering, but only for aluminum, pewter or copper. In annealing (making a hard die soft), I then add fresh detail, but would then harden the die again. It is always preferable to use hard dies for production. These flat dies used for hammering only are never used in a press, there is no cavity or collar. Splash dies or collar dies are used in a press.

 

[Roger Bleile]

Steve,

Many thanks for the explanation of the die process and how it relates to hand engraving.

Roger