your own engraving style

[jacques herbst]

how does one start to develop ones own style of engraving?it is probably easer to ask than to explain.i am a novice and would really like to have a style that i can truly call my own or at least that is my goal.if i try to draw scrolls and do so without trying to look at others work and come up with a drawing there are always elements of it that i have seen in the work of others.i see the same thing in the work of others.is it just a case of not seeing subtle differences or not knowing what to look for.a engraver that shall remain nameless said on a another post that he wants to be a clone of one of our members is that not just a fancy word of saying that he wants to be a exact copy of that member work? is that not wrong and one should rather strive for uniqueness.does your own style develop in time and i should just be patient and keep at it or is it something that some of the greater engravers set out to do? i have copied other engravers work line for line and my goal was to see what they have done.the cuts tell me more than a picture and i have never tried to pass it of as my own. i have never held a piece of real engraving in my hands except for one practice plate from sam.i am driving myself nuts trying to come up with something new.any advice?

 

[FANCYGUN]

Jacques... Don't worry about creating your own style. We are all impressed and affected by work of others as we grow as an artist and subconciously we start to warped what we like into our own way of doing things. There will be things you like to do and not do and you will try to design something that will avoid your dislikes subconciously. This is an evolution over the years. You will experiment with different things and you hold onto the things you like. We are all CLONES of one or more people and it is not a bad word as some people would like you to believe. I like to describe it as WARPED CLONES. We see things differently and go about doing things differently. This is due to our personalities and our envirionment. Some of us are infinitely patient. Others are not. This also affects our style. We also favor engraving certain types of objects. This will also determine how our own style grows. So don't get uptight about your own style and try to create one. If you have to force the issue it will not truly be your own.
Just my two cents worth

Marty

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Well put Marty.

Jacques, if you get hung up on this 'trying to develop you own style' at this stage you risk slowing yourself down. It will develop naturally as part of your engraving career as hand writing does since leaving school. This is one of the things that makes restoration work so difficult and boring, recutting someones elses work is like tracing over someone elses writing. The thing to do is draw and keep drawing scrolls and other paterns whenever you've got a spare few minutes and eventually you'll think to yourself 'Mmm, that works' or for that matter 'yuk!' but whatever your reaction you'll have learned something about aesthetics. Use other peoples styles as inspiration, take what you like from it and leave what you don't.

My father, sister and myself all used to work in the same workshop alongside one another. At one stage we were all cutting English fine rose and scroll guns but each of us cut slightly differently but both my sister and I didn't consciously strive to make our own styles different from dad's, it just happened by the way we cut.

I hope to post some pictures of a Spyderco Endura I'm engraving in a short while. Unfortunately, due to this neck operation, I'm not supposed to work fully yet so I'm doing around an hour a day......slow! Anyway, I also hope to photograph my initial drawings and post them too. The engraving has been prompted by what someone else said in another thread about there being 'no rules' in engraving. This is like no other scrollwork out there, as far as I'm aware it's unique. It's based on a cross between tribal-tatoo, celtic strapwork, and maori influences. There were no rules to it as it's something I've just undertaken, but strangley there were a lot of errasures on the way because something just didn't look right. I happen to quite like what I've achieved but whether or not you guys in the Cafe will I don't know. I plan to put it up for auction on Ebay and that will be the test....will the public like it enough to buy it? If they do I'll develop it if not I may just put it to bed.

Over the time I've been engraving there have only been a couple of occassions where I've conciously made an effort to develop a totally new style. Everything else has developed in an organic way, unconciously. If you force something at this stage Jacques, without fully understanding and appreciating as much as you can about how scrollwork forms, I think you may hinder yourself. Don't worry, whatever you cut now or in the future will be individual and unique to you to you......you're a hand engraver after all!

 

[FANCYGUN]

I received an email from Jacques and answered him with this response. I hope you don't mind my sharing this with everyone Jacques.

Look at things this way..Do you totally like everything about somebodys style ????? look closely and pick out something you don't like..force yourself. Now redraw it and omit what you dont like and fill it in with something else. There is a difference between copying and working from something. The only way you can find out what you like and dont like is to do it and experiment. The flow will come naturally if you are creative. Others who obviously COPY or CLONE something are not creative and that's one of the things that seperate the men from the boys.
Marty

 

[sam]

Absolutely GREAT advice from Marcus and Marty.

One thing I did early on, and still do to this day, was to study the engravings of others, make notes and drawings of different components that I liked, and then apply them to my work. Quite often a hybrid develops where I combine elements from two or more leaves or scrolls. For me this is really exciting, especially when it's a particularly good one.

You can't rush the process. Just keep your mind open and your sketchpad handy. Draw draw draw!

 

[Ray Cover]

I am probably one of the loudest drum beaters for developing your own style or look. But that does not mean that your "style" has to be isolated.

None of us exist in a bubble and none of us is an island unto himself. We all draw on the inspiration of others and are influenced (consciously and subconsciously) by things that impress us. For example, look at my own work. My work has been influenced primarily by four factors. One being my fine art training the others being three engravers who's scroll work I have admired ... Ron Smith, Steve Lindsay and Sam Alfano. When I was a very young man just starting this engraving adventure it was these three gentlmen whos work I saw as the penacle in quality and design. If you look at my work you can see the influence from all three. Yet if a knowledgeable collector had a table full of engraved knives excecuted by the four of us he could easily make a Sam pile of engraving, a Steve pile of engraving and a Ron and Ray pile of engraving even if the works were not signed. Our individual works are distinguishable even though the other three have had a great influence on my own scroll.

Here is where I think one needs to start with this. Like has been said, its not something to worry about or to try and force. However, I do think it is something that can be done purposely and will not likely happen by accident. When looking at scroll you like, look at three things 1. the structure of the layout in the space, 2. the structure of the scroll spines and main lines of the scroll, 3. the structure of the shading. Then decide what it is about each these three things that causes the work to appeal to you. Get a sketch pad and make notes. write down and sketch the things you decided casue you to like it. DOnt' put too much detail in these sketches. Just enough to convey the ideas.

Put the original work away. Take out your notes and sketches and design scroll for a project you are working on. It helps if this job is shaped very differently than the original was so the temptattion to copy from memory is not there. Use your basic sketches and the notes you made an apply those things to your new design.

After operating like this for a while you will find two things happen. 1. You are learning to use the foundations of layout, scroll structure and shading. Soon you will be able to get more and more work designed without outside references. 2. As your skill with #1 grows the things you like about others scroll will be present in your own work but will not dominate it. These outside influences will blend together with your own ideas in your own design. This is when your own style will start to develop.


Ray

 

[Cody]

I look at engraving like music. In music, there are only so many notes. No matter what song you write, you will be useing notes that someone else has used in the past. What will make your song yours is how you arrange and combine those notes. We all have different tastes and as marty said, no matter HOW much you like someones style, there will always be something that you would do differently. Unfortunately, I think engraving is like music also in that there some people that are fantastic musicians but just plain can't write a song. There are people that can cut beautifuly but will never be able to create a truely unique pleasing style. IMO, you don't have to be "artistic" to play an instrument, and you don't have to be artistic to cut a scroll. You do need to be artistic to write a song and you do need to be artistic to create a scroll. I can't recall any musician that ever went anywhere copying someone elses songs in that other persons style. There's LOTS of Elvis impersonaters out there and some are EXTREMELY good. None are Elvis and none will ever be anything but a sideshow. "i am driving myself nuts trying to come up with something new." I think this may be where your problems come from. Rather than "trying to come up with something new", try to come up with something you like. Even if it comes from the work of others. I don't think original design comes in a drawing. It comes from repetition of a design or style that, over time morphs into something original through small changes along the way.

Cody

 

[Brian Hochstrat]

I have been seeing a bit of a trend here lately about how engraving is an art, and how art has no rules therefore, rules will stifle your engraving. I strongly disagree with this. Yes, it seems that public perception is moving engraving from the trade world into the art world, but, as we make that transition we need to learn from the mistakes the fine art world has made and not repeat them. In the world of fine art there is that "no rules" mentality and look where it has left them. The majority of the "fine art" we see today is nothing more than cheap disposable junk looking for shock value, as is true with many things in our society today. The point is when was the last time you walked into a gallery of fine modern art and were impressed? Don't misunderstand me though, there are some great artist out there, but they are now being classified as illistrators and craftsmen. Over X-mas I had a good conversation with a former UC Davis art teacher, she helped with my printmaking, she siad, (paraphrasing) Real life depictions are considered illustrations, fine art must be left to the viewer to come up with there own perception of what the artist is trying to portray. OK that sounds great, but back to reality, to classify Devinci as an illistrator, thats crazy, and that is what happens with the no rules approach. Rules give structure and a starting point, and as Marcus stated there is an evolution in styles and in art. This is necessary for the art, no matter what your canvas is, It must grow and evolve or it will become stagnant and die, individually this is true too, if we quite striving to better our work we will simply get bored and quite or have a burn out.
I have no problem from moving from trade to art, but we as the "artists" control the transition and by keeping a solid foundation, "set of rules", we can keep things moving in a positive direction. Just my opinion. Brian

 

[jacques herbst]

thanks for the replies and i am sure this will help not just me but a lot of new engravers that is concerned to create there own style.it was something that i was concerned about and the last thing i want to be known for is being a copy cat .thanks for the input guys.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Jacques

From what I have seen of your drawings and practice plates I don’t think you’ve got anything to worry about. Your work is coming along in leaps and bounds. Your doing all the right things and developing an eye for the whole process. Well done.

Drawing, designing and engraving is like anything else. It takes time, patience, practice, study and passion. About a lifetimes worth. It never stops. If you look at any artists work from beginning to end you can see how their individual styles developed and evolved over time.

Everyday we are influenced by others work, our environment, our experiences and by the people we have contact with. All of us build on the backs of our predecessors and contemporaries. Kell, Nimschke, Hunt, Smith, Lindsay, Alfano, the list is endless. Some, or all of the people will have some sort of effect and influence on your work to a greater or lesser degree. It’s unavoidable. What you are seeing is the end result of years of hard work and dedication. None of these people created a style overnight; it all evolved one stepping stone at a time.

In a years time your work will be slightly different from what it is today. A year after that slightly different again and in 20 years very different. That’s because you would have been continually developing your own style without really being conscious of it.

So my best advice is to relax (not too much) and enjoy the journey.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[ChrisB]

Jacques,
I agree with all the above, if you look at my "sketch" entry for the Compition on Steves site, You will see elements of Ray, Sam and Steve there, Although I didn't "Copy" there work exactly, i took Elements that Pleased me and Adding little differences that I liked to Complete my Design. I Really Love There Work and it Impresses me.
All I can Say Buddy, Is Draw Draw Draw,!!! That Goes For Van as Well.!!!

I got into the Habit of picking up interesting Leaves that I see when out Smoking, and then draw them when I'm Back in, then I elongate, Fatten etc, the leave to see what I can Come Up With that looks good.

 

[monk]

engraving style

Hi Jacques

From what I have seen of your drawings and practice plates I don’t think you’ve got anything to worry about. Your work is coming along in leaps and bounds. Your doing all the right things and developing an eye for the whole process. Well done.

Drawing, designing and engraving is like anything else. It takes time, patience, practice, study and passion. About a lifetimes worth. It never stops. If you look at any artists work from beginning to end you can see how their individual styles developed and evolved over time.

Everyday we are influenced by others work, our environment, our experiences and by the people we have contact with. All of us build on the backs of our predecessors and contemporaries. Kell, Nimschke, Hunt, Smith, Lindsay, Alfano, the list is endless. Some, or all of the people will have some sort of effect and influence on your work to a greater or lesser degree. It’s unavoidable. What you are seeing is the end result of years of hard work and dedication. None of these people created a style overnight; it all evolved one stepping stone at a time.

In a years time your work will be slightly different from what it is today. A year after that slightly different again and in 20 years very different. That’s because you would have been continually developing your own style without really being conscious of it.

So my best advice is to relax (not too much) and enjoy the journey.

Cheers

Andrew

before one attempts to develop their own particular style, design a new hubcap. in your spare time, study the designwork of others. concentrate first with the easy, then the more complex. if you're still at it in 20 or 30 years, you may have developed a style uniquely your own. if you don't, well do good work and get a good price for it. i think a quest for quality should always preceed a quest for anything else.