Help, please: choosing microscope set-up

[MICHAEL]

I've been talking to the good folks at GRS about purchasing an EMZ-5 microscope. I engrave mostly firearms in Nimscke period style. I am going into my 6th year of engraving. I want to get quality tools that will last but not buy anything I don't really need. I've read through the forum to learn about scopes / work bench set-up but still want to be sure I get what I need. I planned on a set-up like Rex and some others have with the drill press stand. I just saw Steve Lindsay is selling a new engraving stand with a turn table on top. My questions are, would this be better at about $500 as compared to a drill press stand:biggrin:? Do I need a turn table? Do I need a positioning vise? Do I need the Optia LED ring light.
I may be over thinking all this but it is a lot of money and just wanted some opinions of those who have been there and done that.
I have a Gravermach with 901 hand piece. Currently using optivisor. I wear glasses but don't need them for close up, as long as work is 8-12 inches away.

 

[sam]

You definitely need either a positioning vise or vise on a turntable. Those are two options for keeping work centered under your scope. I like the vise and turntable waaaaay more than the GRS positioning vise because it's got more travel, is faster to position, etc. Mine is a GRS turntable that sits on the drill press stand table. My vise is a GRS Low Profile vise. I haven't seen Lindsay's setup but if's making an adjustable floor stand with turntable on top for $500 that sounds like a decent deal. You'll pay close to that buying a drill press and turntable and then you'll have to cut it to size, bolt it down, etc.

You'll need either a fluorescent or LED ring light for the scope. I prefer fluorescent but am using an LED for the extra power since the working distance under my scope is around 8-inches and the fluorescent is a bit underpowered for that distance. If your scope has the standard 0.5x objective lens, then either fluorescent or LED will work just fine.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Micheal

Meiji EMZ-5 Microscope.......great scope. It's what I use.

Drill press stands work perfectly and are flexible with raising and lowering the work which is what you need with a microscope. Get one with a crank handle on the table as it makes life easier. Make sure the drill press table fits the turntable.

Turntable.....an absolute "must have" with a microscope so you aren't chasing your work which gets old very fast. It allows you to centre your work easily and very efficiently.

Positioning vise......No, you don't need it. A normal ball vise works perfectly with a turntable.

Ring light.......Yes, you definitely need one to illuminate your work. Another "must have" item with a microscope.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Marrinan]

Michael, I've been using a scope for about 10 years. less time than some, more than others. I will give you my opinions on your questions and they are MINE and others will disagree. First question is about the stand. I think that the original reason that Ray came up with the stands is they were cheaper than buying a bunch of drill presses he did not need to get the stands he did need for his teaching studio. With my drill press stand first I have a crank to raise and lower the working surface. This is infinitely superior to raising the stand in most other ways. Never had the opportunity to use hydraulic or air assist other than playing with the optometrist's machine on a recent eye exam (they were out of the room while I played with it) You release the lock handle and turn the crank. it can easily be done while looking through the scope. Drill presses from harbor freight, grizzly and tractor supply are all way cheaper than Steve's new one plus you have good saleable parts left over. Sometimes you can find drill press for really cheap when something is wrong with the part you don't need-the motor. You absolutely need a turntable. Many of the above mentioned drill presses have tables that rotate. to make them easier to rotate add a bearing. Take the table portion to your local bearing source and they will fix your right up. You may need to hone the table shaft a hair with emery cloth so it is super smooth but probably not. This setup allows you to use the drill press table as your vise stand to act as the turn table. It should also have the ability to tilt to probably 45 to 60 degrees built right in. You can also use either the GRS or Lindsay or homemade turn table on the drill press table. This comes in most handy when the drill press table too small to move the vise around on or square. On my harbor freight and my daughter's tractor supply drill press stands they articulate meaning you can move them farther from the pipe portion of the stand-handy as hell. Lighting-I have a window, florescent ring light that came with my scope (bought extra 12 watt bulbs but have never needed to change one). I also have Florescent side light if I need it. Rarely do as shop is pretty bright in my current location. Moving shop soon so things may change. I use my optivisor for some work. Use number five lens. Recently had major neck issues and need the scope to be just so or pain become major issue so using the scope for posture reasons more no almost exclusively. Many engravers I know of still do 80 to 90% of their work with optivisor. Remember how your work will be viewed. I think that about covers MY OPINIONS. Remember to take care of your neck, the scope will be an important part of that again in MY OPINON - Fred

 

[Tom Harvey]

Hey Michael, I hit all of the pawn shops and found a older drill press that worked great. Added an extention off of the table to a old lathe plate that I turned down to rotate really nice. I have a thread on it under "new engraving stand" Good luck, TH

 

[Tom Harvey]

Sorry Michael the thread was "A new adjustable vice stand" Also found good prices on GRS scopes and stands at Ottofrei.com TH

 

[Brian Marshall]

You can probably cobble together an adjustable vise stand for next to nothing if you are patient and put a little thought into it.

Disgarded farm & ranch machinery comes to mind. Disc blades for the base, axles and such...

A lot of guys on here have access to such things.

It may be that one is close to you and might contribute a part or two?


Brian

 

[Haraga.com]

Brian, I have seen a disc and I have seen a blade but never a disc blade. Please explain what a disc blade is please.

 

[sam]

For what it's worth, I had to give away the heads and bases of the two drill press I bought (Grizzly and Harbor Freight). Ads on Craigslist did no good and I got tried of tripping over them so I gave 'em away. No regrets though. The drill press stands are the best upgrade ever for my benches.

Rex Pedersen put a thrust bearing in his drill press table and he use that as a turntable. I haven't tried it yet but I need to.

 

[Tira]

I agree with Sam and use similar tools. The low profile vise on the turntable on the drill press stand. The stand was probably one of the largest improvements to my bench in years when I finally installed it because it allowed me very easily to change levels with my work. This is important to me because I will work on something small (ring) one day and something very large (car part) the next and the ease of changing the height on the drill press was good for me.

I recommend the turntable & vise combo over the positioning vise too. The positioning vise is a good piece of equipment, but it is not as easy to use or as versatile as the other combo.

I haven't seen Lindsays new stand, but I did see Ray Covers set up at the Engrave-In last year. It was pretty cool especially for a portable unit. I can't remember how easy it was to change the height on it.

As for microscopes you may also want to look at the Leica A60F. I used a Meiji for many years but have switched over to the Leica for the optics. They are in the same price range as the Meiji. They also come prepackaged with the stand and a great LED light that is color corrected for daylight.

 

[Brian Marshall]

The positioning vise does have it's uses...

In my case the largest proportion of my work is done in about 2.5 inch area - moving back & forth, up & down under the scope.

Because of my admittedly unusual circumstances - working with my engraving arm in a sling suspended from the ceiling, it was(is) the best solution for me.

It's been 12 years now...


I do use other vises for specific jobs. For inside ring engraving I have a small vise custom made by Ray LeTourneau, and in the upstairs studio there are larger vises like the low profile dovetail vise that is no longer made.

I've also got both the GRS low profile and the newer Lindsay on turntables out in the classroom at the moment.

If you were closer to my place you could come try them all out, but I don't know of anywhere out in your direction that you could do that?


Brian

 

[Brian Marshall]

Leonard,


It's a California term for those round things that (cut) turn the soil when pulled behind a tractor.

Hence, "blade" is added as description I suppose? Since the word "disc" - when used alone could describe anything flattish and round...

I am not responsible, I didn't coin the words, and I clearly remember Victor using the term - so it HAS to be correct!

(On top of all that, you immediately knew what I referred to)


Someday you really oughta get down here. Be good to stretch yer vocabulary a bit... dunno where the nearest yogurt warehouse is, but I can find out.


B.

 

[MICHAEL]

I appreciate all the input, Just got home from work / very tired:caution:. Been reading all the good info though. I forgot to mention, I have a magna block vise I would like to continue to use, if possible. This would save me $800-900. Will spend the money, if I need to. In case someone is wondering why I don't just order a piece at a time and see what I need next is that GRS is offering me a package deal. If I order what I need all at one time I save a few hundred $. And we all know what that means, I can buy more tools I have a porter cable drill I'm not using since I got a mill drill machine (Bridgeport will replace this soon hopefully) The drill press table I have is a funky shape, not quite round or square. 13" one way and 11" the other. Table turns smoothly, rotates 45 degrees each side, pivots side to side, and cranks up / down smoothly. Does this sound like it will work? If needed, I can take pics of it tomorrow night and post. I'm still having trouble loading my pics to my the albums in my profile, I'll save that for another thread. My drill press table is definitely not round and does not look like the one Rex is using in his pic of his workbench. Seems like I read it needed to be round?
Also, not sure if I'll need to wear my glasses using a microscope. I usually wear them with my optivisor, but just because they're already on when I put on my optivisor. I thought with a microscope I would be able to not wear glasses and adjust the microscope to see better. I can see without glasses at an 8-12 inch distance fine. Also wondering which stand I need, Original or acrobat?
If there is a thread that explains these questions already, if so, please show a link. I type in key words but don't always find what I'm looking for, through my own ignorance, I'm sure.
I really appreciate the time everyone has taken in helping me.

 

[LVVP]

So good the info, thanks

 

[Dave London]

Get the oculars for eye glass use, it is a PITA to put the glasses on and off. The square or rectangle table on the drill press is fine MTC you can put a turntable on it, use some anti slip carpet fabric to set the turn table on. shimpo potters banding wheels are cheap and real smooth turn tables , the # 25 ,10 inch DIA and around 1 1/2 high. If I remember right
I also use a 15 inch deep dish pizza pan to catch most of the chips, thanks to Mike D. And Brian

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Micheal

Microscope.......order it with the eyepieces for glasses. It's a rubber O ring that fits around the eyepiece so you don't scratch your glasses. That's what I use. Taking glasses off and on is a pain in the backside. It costs slightly more but if you wear glass is worth every cent.

Magnablock.........No problem. Keep using it.

Drill press stand......doesn't matter what the shape of the drill press table is so long as the turntable can fit on the top. The GRS turntable is 255mm diameter which is just over 10 inches. My table was slightly too small so I cut a thick Plywood round top and bolted it to the table and then placed the turntable on top. Works like a dream

Microscope stand........If you are buying the meiji microscope then go for the acrobat stand. They are made to fit each other.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Andrew Biggs]

One thing I would ad .....is the GRS Turntable Base Brake Kit. Here's the link http://www.grstools.com/workholding/accessories/003-343.html

There are times when it is very handy to stop the turntable from turning.

God, I love spending other people money.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[MICHAEL]

Thanks. The information is really helping me. I forgot to mention that I have a jig that I bought from Fred at the 2010 engrave-in. It's a plate that you can glue your work to and it slides in a dovetailed cut and has a allen head hex bolt that tightens / loosens. He said that it helps to reposition your work under the scope, looks like I'll finally get to use it the way it was intended for.
Andrew, I've always remembered your telling me to keep drawing / I've done so. I loaded some pics of my early guns on my profile. Would like to know what you think? Just remember, I couldn't draw a stick man (or a scroll) when I got my Gravermach.
Tira, I tried to look up the Leica scope but couldn't find it and I'm too tired tonight, need to get to bed. One more 13 hr day of being a nurse and I get to be an engraver for 6 days!:banana: If you can post a link to the microscope you're talking about, I would like to look it over. thanks again to everyone!

 

[fegarex]

My drill press does have a round table and I like it as I get another 2 inches of "table" but in the classroom the drill press has a table as you describe and it is fine if you use the turntable.
And like the others have said, get the eye pieces made for glasses. That way you can use them either way. It took a bit to get used to wearing glasses with the scope but I find it much handier.

 

[Donny]

Michael,
I too shall be looking at the Leica A60 at the FEGA show next month. My scope met a very ugly and highly unfortunate death. I really liked it too..Here is the link you asked for....

http://www.engraver.com/leica-a60-f...icroscope-with-flex-arm-stand-and-ring-light/




Donny