Help, please: Looking for advice on choosing an engraving system

[chathu]

Hello everyone,

I’m new (new, like I know nothing at all) to engraving and I thought this would be the best place to look for wisdom. I’ve gone through many of the threads and I found the engraver’s club has numerous resource personals are under one roof and I hope I’m at the right place.

Please hear me out so that would help you all to understand my grounds when you reach out your helping hand.

At the moment my concerns are that I need to start with engraving involved in micropaving stone settings. If you want to know more of what I mean, please take a look at this video (Time from 01:40 - 04:40)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GUYa7ArBA8&list=PLE_Bg7hpgT3av3jZQf8a54JK_lb4xObMl

See how the tip cuts through the metal ? That is what I want to do (and some engravings in the future). I know that is more of "graving" rather than engraving, but the same tools are used, right ? I am not planning for complex engraving but the quality of the fine details of the finished product and maneuverability of the engraving system are two main components I can’t leave aside when it comes to choosing between systems. I have never used a mechanical graving system, I just use the traditional methods of chisel and hammer. However, I use flex shaft kits by Foredom in my stone setting works and I’m pretty good with it (Thought of letting you know so that you know where I stand). I have already searched for a Microscope as well and the budget fits for a Meiji EMZ-5TR.

So, I’m looking for an engraving system that could deliver me quality work without making me to rob a bank, IYKWIM
Therefore, I would be grateful if you could help me by answering to these questions, please.

1. 1

I have no idea about the systems though I know there are pneumatic systems like GRS, Enset, Lindsay and there are non-pneumatic systems like Foredom PowerGraver. I’m clueless of what are the pros and cons of the two systems (pneumatic vs. non-pneumatic). Also, I’m sure I would grow out the abilities of tools sooner or later if I choose something that would limit the use of my skills. So, what would be the best system, pneumatic or non-pneumatic ?

1. 2

Needn’t to say I’m on a budget, who aren’t, right? So, systems like GRS Gravermax is out of my reach. However, I can stretch a bit for a system like GRS GraverSmith Pneumatic Power Tool for Stone Setting. The problem is I don’t know why it costs so much and if its worthy spending that much. I have seen systems (pneumatic) going for as low as USD 300. For example Gravermate and GraverHelper are going below USD 300 in AliExpress. Any suggestions for a low budget engraver system ? Or should I go with the idea “you get what you pay for†? :thinking:

1. 3

An Air compressor is required with a pneumatic engraving systems, right? What sort of things should I look for in an air compressor for engraving ? Silence must be there, obviously in order to not get crazy at the end of the day . So the oil accompanied ones are the best, right ? There are oil -free compressors as well, which are less expensive. Why shouldn’t I choose a oil-free one ? How long can you use one without doing a major repairs ? Any suggestions for a long term using systems ?

1. 4

I’ve seen some locally built engravers on this forum as well. Are they good when compared to the well-known systems ?

I'm not sure if I broke any house rules by posting this thread, please let me know if any.

Cheers.

Chathu

 

[JJ Roberts]

Chathu,Were do you live?maybe someone how lives near you will invite you to try there engraving tools.Don't buy any tools until you talk with some one you can get carryed away with tools you don't need. J.J.

 

[chathu]

Hi Roberts,
Thanks for the heads-up.
I'm from Sri Lanka and there is no engraving system available for sale in the country. I will have to buy everything from elsewhere and shipped to me. I've already spoken to one of my friends in Australia for the Microscope. Likewise, I will have to get the other items as well.

 

[Eugene Carkoski]

It will hurt dollar wise , but you will have absolutely no Regrets with the Lindsay system. I hope you enjoy I would ever system you buy.

 

[atexascowboy2011]

Vu Tien is in Hanoi, Vietnam ?
Not looking at a map, it may be worthwhile to visit him.
Gun engraving in V.N. is getting ready to explode due to the lifting of the U.S.' trade restrictions recently.
Vu is a member on the Cafe.

 

[Roger B]

Hi Chathu,

My first thoughts would be to steer clear of the things you see selling for $300- or less - as you said "you get what you pay for" and if you are concerned about your skills surpassing the tools I think you will just be setting yourself up for disappointment and a lot of frustration. For a start you will not likely have the after sales support that the "Big 3" provide.

I use an airgraver from Lindsay (and have been very happy with the system) however as a setter you may be interested in the ability to control single strokes in the Enset. Please note that I have not used either the GRS system or the Enset. I feel for you in your isolation from those who are readily able to offer help and hands on experience. I hope that someone close by will offer help so that you can at least try before you buy.

All the best,
Roger

 

[Takoyaki]

Hi Chatu,

Regards to Sri Lanka!

Colombo to Hanoi is a 7hrs flight, like NYC to London/UK !
A bit far and expensive just to try ...


You are from Colombo, Ratnapura ...?
Friend of mine worked for Steven Webster at their Colombo Factory.
Guess in Colombo, there are some factories using GRS systems ...
I may would ask the office, if they know of somebody;
http://www.slgja.org/
Nice & very helpful people when I visited their laboratory!


Otherwise;
GRS is exhibiting in many Jewelry shows, also in Asia.
You may plan to visit the Hongkong or Bangkok shows in september ...?
http://www.grstools.com/news/trade-shows/2016-grs-show-schedule.html
You can try at the shows ...


But even without to try, You`ll not regret to buy a GRS, Lindsay or an Enset system!



I am very happy with my Lindsay, but GRS and Enset make also great tools!
Guess, with anyone of the 3, an good Setter or Engraver can do outstanding work!


I`d mind about an all stainless steel system !
Sri Lanka is hot and has high humidity !
Any steel tool is rusting faster than you can sand it blank again ...!

Also the vise, look for stainless steel, not the chinese or indian cast iron stuff!
Better a used, but good quality tool !

If You are tight on budget, I`d think about an used older Gravermax with handpieces (around 600-650 U$) here from the "buy & sell" page, they are great tools!
Or the Lindsay "Artisian", it`s 844 U$ complete, even some graverblanks incuded!
Might be the cheapest "all new" option.
Then You only need a compressor.
For the sharpening system You can also try to get an used Gemstone Facceting maschine with diamond laps, plus the GRS Angle- or Lindsay-Template System.

http://rathnejayagemsandtools.com/#!/page_tools
They have Diamond laps, but as I remember there are a lot of stone cutting tool dealers at Colombo, for to compare prices & qualities ...
For polishing gravers You can use also Gem-polishing Diamond powder, it`s practicly the same as the graver polishing powder and in Sri Lanka quiet cheap!

Grind with water or oil, the laps will stand longer and You have less dust-harm to Your lungs.


Best of luck,
greetings,
Tako

 

[chathu]

Thanks Eeugene,

I will have look at the Lindsay system

 

[chathu]

Vu Tien is in Hanoi, Vietnam ?
Not looking at a map, it may be worthwhile to visit him.
Gun engraving in V.N. is getting ready to explode due to the lifting of the U.S.' trade restrictions recently.
Vu is a member on the Cafe.

Thanks for the reply,
Its around USD 300+ for the air fair only to Vietnam. I would rather spend that money on a system if I could find sound review on a system.

Thanks again

 

[chathu]

Hi Chathu,

My first thoughts would be to steer clear of the things you see selling for $300- or less - as you said "you get what you pay for" and if you are concerned about your skills surpassing the tools I think you will just be setting yourself up for disappointment and a lot of frustration. For a start you will not likely have the after sales support that the "Big 3" provide.

I use an airgraver from Lindsay (and have been very happy with the system) however as a setter you may be interested in the ability to control single strokes in the Enset. Please note that I have not used either the GRS system or the Enset. I feel for you in your isolation from those who are readily able to offer help and hands on experience. I hope that someone close by will offer help so that you can at least try before you buy.

All the best,
Roger

Thank you Roger,

Yes, I certainly should forget about the Chinese knock-offs.
It seems I should learn more about the Lindsay system. And yes, controlling the single strokes is invaluable in stone setting work.
I wonder if GRS offers the same control. The Lindsay system seemed a bit expensive (USD 400 more than the GRS) though.

Thanks again.

 

[Takoyaki]

Hi Chathu,

The compareable systems cost about the same if You add all what You need,
means the complete set! (footcontroled)

Just the Lindsay Palm Control is a bit more expensive!

For setting work is in my personal opinion footcontrol the better option, for engraving I am sure the PC is, if You look for Lindsay!

But GRS has the option to switch between foot- and handcontrol!
Also an interesting point!

Still, if you are really on budget, the older GRS Gravermax are great maschines, many run everyday, already for 25-30yrs! That says much about their buildquality! Real workhorses!

In the end, the better work You`ll do with the system you are used to work with!
Doesn`t matter which one you use, it`s the craftsman who do the work, not the maschine !
;-)


regards,
Tako

 

[chathu]

Hi Chatu,

Regards to Sri Lanka!

Colombo to Hanoi is a 7hrs flight, like NYC to London/UK !
A bit far and expensive just to try ...


You are from Colombo, Ratnapura ...?
Friend of mine worked for Steven Webster at their Colombo Factory.
Guess in Colombo, there are some factories using GRS systems ...
I may would ask the office, if they know of somebody;
http://www.slgja.org/
Nice & very helpful people when I visited their laboratory!


Otherwise;
GRS is exhibiting in many Jewelry shows, also in Asia.
You may plan to visit the Hongkong or Bangkok shows in september ...?
http://www.grstools.com/news/trade-shows/2016-grs-show-schedule.html
You can try at the shows ...


But even without to try, You`ll not regret to buy a GRS, Lindsay or an Enset system!



I am very happy with my Lindsay, but GRS and Enset make also great tools!
Guess, with anyone of the 3, an good Setter or Engraver can do outstanding work!


I`d mind about an all stainless steel system !
Sri Lanka is hot and has high humidity !
Any steel tool is rusting faster than you can sand it blank again ...!

Also the vise, look for stainless steel, not the chinese or indian cast iron stuff!
Better a used, but good quality tool !

If You are tight on budget, I`d think about an used older Gravermax with handpieces (around 600-650 U$) here from the "buy & sell" page, they are great tools!
Or the Lindsay "Artisian", it`s 844 U$ complete, even some graverblanks incuded!
Might be the cheapest "all new" option.
Then You only need a compressor.
For the sharpening system You can also try to get an used Gemstone Facceting maschine with diamond laps, plus the GRS Angle- or Lindsay-Template System.

http://rathnejayagemsandtools.com/#!/page_tools
They have Diamond laps, but as I remember there are a lot of stone cutting tool dealers at Colombo, for to compare prices & qualities ...
For polishing gravers You can use also Gem-polishing Diamond powder, it`s practicly the same as the graver polishing powder and in Sri Lanka quiet cheap!

Grind with water or oil, the laps will stand longer and You have less dust-harm to Your lungs.


Best of luck,
greetings,
Tako

Hi Tako,
Wow ! Thanks a lot !

At the moment I'm not hoping to fly. Its a bit expensive and Id rather save that money to go for a better system. However, a visit to the GRS show at Bangkok seems affordable, so maybe, I'd try that as well.

I'm glad to hear you are happy with your Lindsay system. Maybe I should look more into Lindsay system since many have recommended it. I'd rather stay away from the Chinese knock-offs, right ? Im pretty scared when it comes to buying used/old stuff. Actually I'm scared of scams. I only get to see the item when I have already paid for it and if it's not good, well, I can't stand it. I have also seen some "seemingly" scams in the "buy & Sell" page as well. In addition I never knew I could guy a used one for a good price. But If I can find someone who I could trust, I could give it a try. Anyone you know and recommend ?

I'm from Colombo and yes, its hot and humid. Thanks for the heads-up on rusting problem. Humidity is the main problem and we are managing it.

I couldn't find anyone using a engraving system locally and that's why I thought of looking for help in here. Im glad I did and its a great thing that you all share your hard learnt wisdom.

We have the best faceting tools around and I'm sure I can convert one to a sharpening system. So sharpening system is not a problem.

I still have to find a compressor, preferably locally, I hope.

Thanks again Tako, for the big help.

Cheers.

Chathu.

 

[Takoyaki]

Hi Chathu,

about the compressor, if You have space, and noise isn´t much of a concern, I´d look at a used car tool shop. They have compressors, much bigger you ever need for the graver.
another possibility for silent compressors are dentists or hospitals, they change their sysems reguarly, to new ones and have good quality, clean compressors. Also good Microscopes are sometimes possible to get from them!
I bought a used Jun-Air 6-25 in 200 U$. It`s very quiet!

About the used gravermax, if you can wait for, I`d buy from somebody well known in the Forum.
Many people here know each other. Not somebody with no postings at the forum ...
You need a Pledge Membership for to post an add;
http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?9224-Pledge-Membership

It`s mosly just the tubes to renew (they get hard and brittle), you can get them cheap from medical-/hospital-service companies. Same size than some infusion (?) tubes!

regards,
Tako

 

[Takoyaki]

Hi Chathu;

You are a jeweller or engraver?

regards,
Tako

 

[chathu]

Hi Chathu,

about the compressor, if You have space, and noise isn´t much of a concern, I´d look at a used car tool shop. They have compressors, much bigger you ever need for the graver.
another possibility for silent compressors are dentists or hospitals, they change their sysems reguarly, to new ones and have good quality, clean compressors. Also good Microscopes are sometimes possible to get from them!
I bought a used Jun-Air 6-25 in 200 U$. It`s very quiet!

About the used gravermax, if you can wait for, I`d buy from somebody well known in the Forum.
Many people here know each other. Not somebody with no postings at the forum ...
You need a Pledge Membership for to post an add;
http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?9224-Pledge-Membership

It`s mosly just the tubes to renew (they get hard and brittle), you can get them cheap from medical-/hospital-service companies. Same size than some infusion (?) tubes!

regards,
Tako

Thanks Tako,

I have, like....hmmm... two and half months until I start my work. So, yes, I can wait. It would be great if you can find me a trustworthy person.

I thought of going for a new microscope. Due to the high humid climate in the country most of the used ones are filled with fungus and its a mess. i need my eyes working properly and I'm not risking them with undue restrains. I am planning to buy a dry cabinet so that I can store it away from humid atmosphere when I am not using it.

Noise is a problem. So it has to be a silent compressor. At least with low noise. I think I have to run around a bit searching for a one before I make my mind. Silent compressor for a 200 U$ ? That sounds like a good deal. Just one question. How long can you use one without repairs ?

Best Regards,
Chathu

 

[chathu]

Hi Chathu;

You are a jeweller or engraver?

regards,
Tako

Mostly a jeweler

 

[Roger B]

Regarding the compressor. If you got one larger than needed you could charge it once in the morning and use the stored air throughout the day without having to suffer the noise again until the next day. You could also build a box around the compressor to try and insulate it to muffle the noise.

 

[chathu]

Regarding the compressor. If you got one larger than needed you could charge it once in the morning and use the stored air throughout the day without having to suffer the noise again until the next day. You could also build a box around the compressor to try and insulate it to muffle the noise.

Thanks Roger,
I will ll consider that option as well.

Regards

 

[Dani Girl]

I didn't thoroughly read all posts so sorry if I contradict or repeat anyone.

Check the post on here by searching Leica review. Sam Alfano did a great comparison review of the Leica which I have and love and the meji.

I don't know much about the Enset but I have heard good things and particularly for stone setting because you can control the hits down to making it do one tap at a time. That's immense control.

I use a palm control and love it. I have never tried stone setting. I think the foot control would achieve very nearly as good results in a practiced hand. You have the advantage of being able to push without the palm control starting to tap when using the foot control.

Grs is a great system also. They have a model which has the air compressor in it... their oldest design I think. Slightly noisy from what I have heard but I am sure it's not that bad ??

Don't buy the knock off gravers.
Up to you on the vises... I have seen and used both and the knock off a are not as high quality but we'll... they vise. If you stick it on a quality turntable you would be OK. For jewellery though I would the microblock or Lindsays low profile microscope vise which doesn't turn but it's made to be used on a turntable under a microscope. You need a turn table to work under a scope. Folk on here have built them. For the price shimpo turntables are meant to be good.

Grs has a good range of power in the adjustments on the box... get the right handpiece for the kind of work you are doing though... some won't go fine enough.

Lindsay had a good range of power too by using the different pistons he sells... the handpieces with the adjustment collar ... and by altering the psi.

If you can get scuba tanks or paintball canisters of co2 or compressed air and run the Lindsay and pieces off them and scrap the need for the air compressor. I take my micro block. My Palm control and my bycycle tire co2 cartridges to knife shows and do demos.

Can anyone link this chap some videos of the different tools in use ... ???????? Stone setting especially.

Good luck with your decision

 

[speeedy6]

Chathu
I have a Lindsay Artisan . I've been engraving for about two years now and I don't see a need for a different tool for a while. It's powerful enough for anything I've done so far and very high quality and the customer service is top notch! I bought a used airbrush compressor for $30 and it has all the power I need and is very quiet. I keep it under my bench and its no louder than someone speaking in a low tone. In fact, it's low warble is quite soothing.