Question: Angle of attack

[Marcelo]

I practiced a lot and spent a lot of effort, but sometimes it's very frustrating. watching videos of other engravers think my attack angle is very low. Graver 116 and heel 16.3 (Universal Lindsay point). I think this sharpening is this angle attack the graver (hand push) make a bit slippery. Also noticed that at the bottom of graver Has a copper residue - black point on the Photo. In simple curves already it appears something like a drag. Is that because to this low angle or a short heel?

 

[speeedy6]

Marcelo,
I have the same problem, under the microscope my shade lines look like plowed furrows in a cornfield with metal sort of pushed up along the sides of the cut. I sort of developed the problem over time and never noticed it until recently. Apparently I just got lazy with my graver and started holding it at too low of an angle. The graver seems to cut just fine but the back of the heel of the graver is below the face and while it cuts it also drags the back end of the heels through the cut. I only noticed it with shading ,the rest of the cuts were deeper and looked fine. The graver cuts with the face so, raise up your graver so the front point is the lowest point of contact. When starting a shade line, I've been taught to start on the heel slightly but raise up the graver to start to cut. I'm having to retrain myself to do that.
I wonder if my grip has something to do with it also. I cut with my finger on top of the graver. I understand a more traditional grip is with the thumb on the side
Others that are more in the know may give better opinions on this. I would like to learn if the grip has something to do with it.

 

[Marcelo]

I was expecting some response. You described very well the fact. Also use the traditional way of grip the graver and the result is the same. After two years, change is very difficult, but I'm willing. Thanks a lot.

 

[Barry Lee Hands]

You maybe should lean the tool to the outside.
It appears to be sharpened properly.

 

[Marcelo]

The heel has approximately 0.08mm.
Barry, I'm sorry, but did not understand what you said.
Thanks,

 

[sam]

I have never found short heeled gravers used for hammer & chisel or pneumatic handpiece engraving to be suitable for hand pushing, except for small, fine shading lines or crosshatching. I have many dozens of vintage V-geometry gravers and they all have much larger and longer heels.

You might refer to the Ken Hunt thread as he illustrates his gravers and how he sharpens them for hand push work.

 

[Marcelo]

I have never used pneumatic handpiece. It would be correct to say that the same geometry works differently in a pneumatic tool and hand push? Thanks.

 

[sam]

I have never used pneumatic handpiece. It would be correct to say that the same geometry works differently in a pneumatic tool and hand push? Thanks.

Correct. Hand push gravers have longer heels and different geometry. See my Youtube video on hand push engraving.

 

[Marcelo]

I've seen a dozen times. In this video the grave seems to drag a lot. In another video shading do not see any drag. because?

 

[Barry Lee Hands]

The heel has approximately 0.08mm.
Barry, I'm sorry, but did not understand what you said.
Thanks,

When you go around a curve, lean the graver to the outside, like a truck leaning to the outside when it goes around a corner. This widens the cut in the outside and removes the area that makes the ragged edge problem.

 

[Marcelo]

Barry, Do you think there is a problem the way I hold the graver my the attack angle?
By the way, i read your articles and i appreciate your wonderful work. Thanks for all.

 

[Marrinan]

On a side note: Mount your copper sheet to a 3/4 inch think block of wood and keep your vise hand below the surface being cut. Otherwise buy a six pack of liquid bandage and plenty of gauze/ dr. tape, Band-Aids, and thick skin (for the ribbing you will take). Antiseptics would be good things well. Fred

 

[Marcelo]

Hi Marrinan,
Thanks for the advice.
Some observation about my question of the angle attack?

 

[quickcut07]

I could be wrong on this but I believe your angle of the hand during the actual cut should be relative to the heel. Your angle when entering the cut will be greater than eased back to follow a set and steady depth. I only do a small amount of hand push work and have found if you get the graver riding nice, that is your sweet spot. To get deeper cuts a second or third pass is needed. This is from a jeweller friend that does all hand work. It is similar to air assist that your ride height stays the same on long runs by your angle of attack, raise or lower your wrist and you will either go deeper or raise out of your cut. You could be trying to cut too deep in one pass. Sam's video is great and is a big help but patience I find is huge with hand push engraving. If your cuts are consistent than your wrist angle is fine, if you see undulations in the cut than you have to correct your position to achieve uniform depth.
Not sure if that is what you are looking for but what I see from you cuts they look pretty good.
Eric

 

[Marcelo]

Thank you Eric for advice. Also believe in the relationship of the heel angle with angle of attack.
I think are the same.I'm trying to post a picture, but I can not. Picture of something I did.
Thanks a lot.

 

[John P. Anderson]

I like a much narrower V angle for my push graving, 55 or 60 degree versus 90 or 120. Yes on the long heel but sometimes you want less or no heel depending on what your trying accomplish. You can only push so far, sometimes you wiggle which gives you more control and follow it up to clean the cut.

I also use a flat as often as the V. A flat is two 90 degree V tools. My V tool is similar to a bulino tool but with a heel.

John

 

[John P. Anderson]

I dug this out with a bit of searching.

http://www.engraverscafe.com/showth...nglette-style-push-graver-demonstration-video

 

[Marcelo]

John P. Anderson,
Thank you very much.