Master engraver?

[Brian Marshall]

OK Andrew, we'll flog the dead horse one more time...


What you wrote above makes no sense to me...?

I'd not thought of any of that stuff for years - until the exact moment I wrote what I wrote.

And what I wrote was not something that I thought of as "important" to anyone in particular. You alone took it as important?

Unless something that relates to that time comes up again, I may not think of it again for many more years?


It happened, Jason was the catalyst for the new "Association" - and from what I have in the folder it was going on from before you were on the FEGA BOD - so how it turned into rumors and whatnot at a FEGA BOD meeting I've no idea. I wasn't there. I do have a written record of the history that I did participate in - as do you, of the history that you participated in.

I was there for the formation and eventual failure to function of other entity. I was involved in that side of things.


It's past. It was a good idea at that time, it just didn't collect that last little bit of energy to push it over the edge into functional existence. Had it survived, we wouldn't be having this "conversation" at all...

What's left is FEGA. Which is adapting - albeit slowly. And that may just be appearances from the outside?

Perhaps the difficulties to be surmounted on the inside are not apparent to those who don't go meetings - like myself?


Brian

 

[Barry Lee Hands]

I checked with Bill Gamradt who handles much of our webmaster work and he had this to say about a"membership list"
"FEGA does not have a "roster" of members that can be viewed by either the public or members (except FEGA site administrators). The reason is to protect the privacy of our members. Our members who want their name shown must check a box saying they want the information to be shown and then they can choose what information they want made public."

And, i might add that we do have rules about what you should do to apply for Master status, for obvious reasons.
We (FEGA) board members and our officers including myself and Andrew are elected to represent our membership and the members mostly trust us to make the right decisions on many things including the Masters program.
Andrew does an excellent job administering the Masters program, and in interpreting the will of the BOD and general membership in his work.
If enough of the membership wants changes in the program, all this constituency would need to do is send some emails to their favorite (or least favorite) BOD members or myself to make us directly aware of the constituencies wishes and suggestions.
If there was sizable interest, we would take notice.
The next logical step would be to attend the FEGA convention in Las Vegas and lobby the BOD and fellow members to implement the suggestions.
If they did not feel their concerns were adressed, this group could either elect new BOD members, or make a motion from the floor as to their concerns and how they would like them adressed.
If and when the majority wants changes the BOD can see a reasonable way to implement, i am sure they will come quickly.

In my personal opinion, i think firearms engraving is the highest form of the art.
I started in western engraving, moved into gun engraving, and today do mostly knives.
But i still think that firearm engraving is the coolest. . .
Perhaps it would be a mistake to point FEGA in another direction.

This personal opinion aside, the majority of the membership seems to approve of the masters program the way it is now, and it is likely the program will look more or less as it does now for quite a while.
Our present program is flexible, and if Andrew, Or the elected FEGA officials decide we need to make prudent and timely adjustments we are happy to do so.
If and when it seems we should include other types of engraving in the Masters program, we will see the majority of members asking for it at the convention.
FEGA is open to anyone joining, and any dues paid member has the same voting rights at the general membership meeting in Las Vegas as any other member.
So i suggest we all pay our dues as FEGA members, and i look to-
SEE YOU IN LAS VEGAS!

 

[Dani Girl]

Now this isn't going to happen in my forum :no:

It's an interesting thing posting on this forum. It's a bit like having a chat in his cafe or Sam's home. We should always be respectful to the host wherever we are. So throwing the bar stools etc... I am glad we have all stopped short of that.

The Internet is also a tricky thing. Saying the same thing online as we may have in person means a different thing when so many eyes read it.

Thank you Barry for that very informative post about fega and how it runs.

It would be cool for me to be able to seek some sort of accredition or recognition but Australian gun lisences being as expensive and difficult as they are I don't see it happening. Maybe one day knives and such will be admittable and I will look forward to that day.

There are scrimshaw awards given in the US

Australia has some kind of jewelers awards or something I believe.

I have never heard of anything I would fit into to join, enter, compete or apply for. It may happen one day.

Fega is doing what they do in style and doing it well. If we asked them to branch out that much we would be asking them to risk their identity and make their name almost invalid.

 

[Barry Lee Hands]

Hi Dani,
Thanks, if you have not already, you would be very welcome to join FEGA.
You should attend our show as an exhibitor.
Some of the most important knife collectors and dealers come to our Gun Engravers show, I know this because I sell them a lot of stuff there.
Aside from that, I must say your work is some of my favorite on the forum.
And we do let people from down under join, I believe Andrew Biggs is just a thousand or so miles off your coast . . .

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Barry, my apologies I was just juggling with ideas.. I don't know if you've been following this whole thread but it started off about questioning the term "master engraver". Now apart from getting a degree in Engraving Arts or studying at one of the schools in Europe or getting a formal apprenticeship with a gun company there is nowhere else other than FEGA that recognises a standard of work.

You know for a fact that your membership is not made up in its entirety of gun engravers. The majority I would guess look at it as a subscription to the magazine and that isn't devoted entirely to gun work. I'm with you as to regarding firearms engraving being the pinnacle of our craft but the fact is engraving seems to be gaining popularity again and some of the fantastic works of art out there isn't always on firearms.

The fact is there is no other organisation doing what FEGA does so if you're a brilliant knife engraver or copper plate engraver you're screwed if you'd like to show potential clients that your work has been recognised as attaining a certain standard because you don't happen to engrave guns. What I was not doing is suggesting FEGA ignore its roots, but rather wondering if there was a way for it to be a bit more inclusive?

All I was doing was throwing some ideas into the ring. I wasn't trying to stir things up so please forgive me if it came across that way.

 

[Bluetickhound]

As a guy who is totally new to engraving I didn't think I had any business joining FEGA... Wrong!! After checking out the 'site I went ahead and did it and am so glad I did. the magazine alone is worth the yearly dues but as I progress I expect to see more and more benefits from my membership. I won't be able to make Vegas in January (it falls on my daughter's 11th birthday) but plan to make it in 2018, provided the dates line up.

 

[Dani Girl]

Thank Barry. I may well take you up on that invitation in a few years. I was unclear I meant I can't apply for master engraver certification or anything like it without engraving guns.

I have let my fega membership slip and must get onto that.

"Aside from that... your work is some of my favorite on the forum" !!!! I guess that's all the certification I need.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Fega is doing what they do in style and doing it well. If we asked them to branch out that much we would be asking them to risk their identity and make their name almost invalid.

Yes, that is the tricky part and where the balancing act comes in

Dani.............If you really want it you will find a way to legally obtain or have access to engrave a couple of firearms. Yes, Australia is restrictive but not entirely prohibitive when it comes to firearms. Your biggest obstacle is time and effort but that applies to everyone.

Just remember..........the firearm itself is irrelevant as it's only a canvas. No one is judging the firearm, just the engraving. It doesn't have to be a high end gun like Purdey or Holland and Holland. It can be cheap and cheerful twenty two or replica Uberti. The guns have to be dismantled, prepped properly and engraved suitabley.

Not easy..........but doable

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Dani Girl]

Thanks Andrew .

If it were easy everyone would be doing it.

 

[Bluetickhound]

I was just perusing the FEGA "How-To" book. Chock full of useful info!! Not that I'm going to be a threat to "go pro" anytime soon (if ever!) but that section was amazingly insightful. The section on different guns and their peculiarities (metal hardness, thin spots etc.) was also very informative and something I will definitely refer back to when the time comes for me to try that discipline...

 

[Steve Adams]

Very interesting reading. I can't compare myself to gun and knife engravers, but have seen the title master die engraver used in my field. Recently a die engraver 0f 35 years who was given the title of master die engraver by his company, tried his hand at the kind of die engraving I do. He gave it a great effort, but it was too much for him after about four months. He said I know you are giving me the easy stuff, and it is only going to get harder. He then stated I thought I was master die engraver, but now I realize how little I know. That is kind of the way I feel. I'm pretty good in my field, but I think I will spend the balance of my career still learning.

 

[Big-Un]

I would support a three-tier system.
I think that's a good idea. An apprentice, journeyman, master tiered certificate system that actually means something is ok with me.

Thanks,
Weldon

That is the setup when I went through the Electrical Apprenticeship program, from a complete novice ( apprentice) to certified graduation as a journeyman, able to perform work to a higher standard, to a Master Electrician, certified by local and state government as being capable of the most complicated projects and work.

 

[Big-Un]

My mind is a little foggier than it was 30 (or so) years ago but if I recollect, this is the same conversations that were presented for the new " Engravers" association and the same objections and confusion about who and how to include everyone that eventually became an insurmountable hurdle.

I like a three tier system but don't see a way to incorporate it. FEGA need not relinquish their original mission just to change with the times. We are a FIREARMS organization and, in my opinion, must remain so. That doesn't mean we can't include other mediums at our shows or as new members. History is a major study of mine, and I've seen so many good organizations "modernize" themselves out of existence.

This has been a good, for the most part, discussion and highly intelligent conversations and thought processes have been presented. Maybe it's time to do like the old cow does and take a break and ruminate on the fodder.

 

[dogcatcher]

That is the setup when I went through the Electrical Apprenticeship program, from a complete novice ( apprentice) to certified graduation as a journeyman, able to perform work to a higher standard, to a Master Electrician, certified by local and state government as being capable of the most complicated projects and work.

Unfortunately unless the government is involved it is hard to monitor who uses the term "master" or to make them stop using the term.

 

[Big-Un]

I understand and the government certification has to do more with protecting the general public, not trying to certify the "arts." We've all seen what some people classify as "ART!"

 

[diandwill]

Thanks Andrew .

If it were easy everyone would be doing it.

Unfortunately, many that aren't ready are doing it!

 

[Lee]

Kudos to Barry and Andrew for providing clarity and well considered thought. Also big kudos to Andrew for the extremely professional way he has administered the Masters program and other duties and the steady and measured progress and evolution of these programs.

I was on the board as vice president for 8 years and there were some impressive disagreements and discussion but when the decision was made the BOD collectively did their best to support and execute the decision. My impression of the current board is that they operate with the same values-that being the good of the board. It's probably a stronger board as it is more diverse and brings many professional work experiences to the decisions. Well done ladies and gentleman and many thank yous.

FEGA has grown over the years and decisions have been made that contribute to a controlled and well thought out evolution with an eye to the future.

A myth that somehow prevails is that one must be a Master to display at the show. False. If you engrave and want to display come please and be welcomed. If you don't want to display and engrave come please. If you don't engrave but like engraving come please. It is the most welcoming group I have ever had the opportunity to know and be a part of. If you don't engrave firearms....who cares come please and enjoy the camaraderie. We love engravers of all kinds and while we are not set up administratively to give the same attention to other forms of engraving it is appreciated and welcomed and you will find a lot of it on tables.

For many years we were exhibiting with the gunmakers guild and the show rules prohibited us from opening it up to other forms of engraving. Now that we are in charge we are in a controlled and measured way opening up the show and the guild. Be excited, be grateful, be patient. Join the guild, come to the show and be a participant.

 

[dlilazteca]

I'm still liking the three-tier system I don't think it would be any difficulty then what it is now applicants can submit, and presented in Vegas just like they do now for the Masters title.

Really gives something to strive for. And im sure, almost positive you would have more FEGA members becuase if it!

GunEngraver.com Guns, Knives & More

 

[DakotaDocMartin]

Unfortunately unless the government is involved it is hard to monitor who uses the term "master" or to make them stop using the term.

And, if you really want something messed up, get the government involved.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

The FEGA Master Engraver program is only a stepping stone to say you have reached a certain level of skill that your peers recognise................it doesn't mean you stop learning, improving your work or pushing the boundaries and experimenting with new techniques and ideas.

It can be a part of the journey................but it certainly isn't the end game.