My Revelation

[Jonathans]

I decided that I would focus on learning and drawing scrolls and leaves this weekend. So before we headed up to the cabin I packed up all my "How To" books and videos, along with my sketch pad and pencils, determined to figure this out.
To my chagrin, what I discovered was where I was really lacking was my drawing and pencil skills, rather than my understanding of structure (I'm sure that that lack of understanding of structure will come later).
It was pretty disappointing to find out that I couldn't lay down a decent scroll, arc, or S line, to save my life.
With my bladesmithing and wood turning I have a good eye for form so can tell when I'm screwing up.
So, I need to develop my hand/eye pencil skills. Being that there are so many accomplished artists here I am hoping to get some advice as to hand positioning and drills to practice in order to start developing the drawing ability I need.
Sorry for the totally noob request!
Jonathan

 

[Bluetickhound]

I'm a total noob too and as such, should probably butt out but one thing that really helped me was to avoid focusing on the point of the pencil and kind of "zoom out" my vision. My scrolls still require a light touch and a good bit of erasing but looking at the big picture really helped me. If you don't have it already, Sam's video is excellent, and for the next few hours you can get it (as a download) for 20% off!

 

[Crossbolt]

I'll second that, particularly with regards to "focus", and add that I find it useful also to try copying or even tracing simple examples to get a feel for how it is executed in addition to the layout exercises in references like Meek.
Jeremy

 

[FANCYGUN]

I have been saying for years that your most important engraving tool is your pencil. The second most important is the eraser Drawing will fine tune your motor skills if you cannot draw it then you don't have the reflexes to engrave it draw something, anything every day even just scribbles when you practice your scrolls do not make them actual size but larger when you have something you like then try to redraw it smaller it wont quite look the same but you will tweek it As you scribble and try to design scrolls . Start with the biggest elements and work your way down to the smaller nuances in other words go from big to small. If the big parts dont work then neither will the small parts

 

[sam]

I can usually hold the pencil in a writing grip when I draw scrolls because I'm pretty confident with the lines. With portraits or other art I hold it mid-length (or back even more) and use a light sweep of the wrist. This makes for light lines and I can gradually build the shape and make corrections without having to erase too often. Once I nail it down I will clean up with the eraser. I've seen my students use a death grip on the pencil and make lines so heavy and dark that the paper is damaged and there's not much chance of creating a pleasing result.

 

[FANCYGUN]

Good points Sam make your lines light and as you correct and change you design just make the new lines a bit darker Its only a pencil so be nice to it, no death grips

 

[Jonathans]

So I take it that most of you are using a writing grip, planting the wrist on the table and finger/wrist drawing?

 

[Bluetickhound]

I generally don't. I usually put the top end of the pencil in the web between my thumb and index finger, pinch down chopstick style around the middle and sweep around in small bites while trying to focus on where I'm going with the line than where I'm at. Once the line is roughed in I go back and darken. Where I have trouble is positioning leaf elements/tendrils and then again with shading. It's one of those things I'll just keep at it until I get it right. As of now, light lines and prodigious use of the eraser are the order of the day... It's great fun though and I enjoy every bit of it!

 

[Belprime]

A relaxed grip is a must. A death grip not only tightens your fingers but also your forearm and shoulders. You can't do free flowing curves like that. Also, concider tracing good designs. Tracing paper is cheap. But, by doing it you see how a design looks but build up muscle memory for those shapes. Draw,Trace, just don't give up. Well, that's my input.

 

[Jonathans]

A relaxed grip is a must. A death grip not only tightens your fingers but also your forearm and shoulders. You can't do free flowing curves like that. Also, concider tracing good designs. Tracing paper is cheap. But, by doing it you see how a design looks but build up muscle memory for those shapes. Draw,Trace, just don't give up. Well, that's my input.

I just started doing that today. Hopefully I'll get a better feel for pencil and hand placement by doing so and gain some muscle memory if I do enough of it.

 

[monk]

if you ask a hundred engravers for instruction on how to hold pencil or graver, you'll not get a sure fire answer. many hold in ways that others find awkward.
the very best way to see how they're held, is to watch the many videos that show engravers in action.
it would be difficult for me to usefully describe how i hold. it's something that "just happens", without thought.

 

[Mike_Morgan]

I found that by using a soft pencil, B grade or softer, and a light grip on the pencil, that I can finesse my way to a decent scroll, and easily erase mistakes.

 

[Jonathans]

if you ask a hundred engravers for instruction on how to hold pencil or graver, you'll not get a sure fire answer. many hold in ways that others find awkward.
the very best way to see how they're held, is to watch the many videos that show engravers in action.
it would be difficult for me to usefully describe how i hold. it's something that "just happens", without thought.

I only asked about hand position, grip, etc. because in my woodworking and bladesmithing where curves are a lot longer I will often anchor my wrist to create a pivot point for a smooth curve, or in really sweeping curves I anchor my elbow as the pivot point. Straight lines are drawn with a finger along the edge of the work when possible. I was hoping that when drawing more intricate curves that there would be a technique I was unaware of.

 

[didyoung]

Have yourself a good example to study.
Since I have started I have a picture of Sam's work that I study while I am drawing...I am not trying to copy him...I use his leaf structures to gauge against my own.
You are training your eyes to recognize what a good leaf line or structure looks like.
Study... practice....don't be afraid to erase a line...you will always be refining and correcting until you reach a point where you are satisfied with the object

Michael Phelps did not start out as an Olympic swimmer...he had to learn how to swim first...got some coaching and made countless laps around the pool working on breathing ....form...and fitness.

Something applies here...

Place just as much attention to your leaf elements as you do toward your scroll backbone.