And don't worry about failures...I had a piece of rose gold wire come out this morning and had to start over with better undercuts and a fresh piece of wire. Second time seems to have worked just fine.
Help, please: teach me to inlay?
- Thread starter Dani Girl
- Start date
Don't worry about failure... hmm... I might try that
There is still some slight vibration... when my tool is fluttering heavily doing the undercuts everything gets blurry
There is still some slight vibration... when my tool is fluttering heavily doing the undercuts everything gets blurry
Your drill press stand needs to be anchored to the floor somehow and also the upper portion anchored to your work bench and the bench itself anchored to the wall. I don't know if the movable table of the press can be locked firmly to the shaft of the press but if not then you would need some way to anchor that to the bench also.
Barring all that I would suggest you put the vise on your work bench when doing the inlay portion of the engraving...and if your 'scope won't work there then use an Optivisor for that work.
You really need to eliminate any bounce/vibration to put in teeth and set inlays. It will also help with longevity of tool points.
Barring all that I would suggest you put the vise on your work bench when doing the inlay portion of the engraving...and if your 'scope won't work there then use an Optivisor for that work.
You really need to eliminate any bounce/vibration to put in teeth and set inlays. It will also help with longevity of tool points.
Oh, I thought they were stuck under most engravers benches for convenience not for stability. Hmm... this requires thought. 
I took everyone's comments on board and locked my turntable down, shimmed up the base so it's not as wobbly and then it didn't move much at all... I also re-watched my Don Glasser dvd and watching him do the teeth over and over and I think I have the idea now. I got something that looked like teeth for the first time.
With firm wacks with the hammer and punch in a handle I felt like it was really sticking well(mostly).
It's pretty challenging cutting outlines around the inlays
With firm wacks with the hammer and punch in a handle I felt like it was really sticking well(mostly).
It's pretty challenging cutting outlines around the inlays
Marrinan
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Dani, I can't tell from the pictures but you did leave a bit of steel between your lovely first inlay and the border line you cut around it! I hope you didn't skip that lesson. Fred
Not really, I ran into the inlay a few times. I tried to bevel in towards it. How much should I leave?
Marrinan
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
By cutting right up against the gold you have cut away the undercut. You need to be a little bit wider than the undercut. I am Sorry. it should have been mentioned and made clear from the very start. While I am ruining your day, the layout or illustration of the checkering file is right on the lines must be cut to raise a bur. the second set a bur from another direction. should feel like a pretty rough file when done. Fred
If you got it "right" the first time you would likely think it too easy and move on to something more challenging, like knitting.
That is looking really fine Danae. I expect you noticed quite a difference in the feel when working on a more solid platform.
Keep going, you are doing great!
That is looking really fine Danae. I expect you noticed quite a difference in the feel when working on a more solid platform.
Keep going, you are doing great!
Thank you Fred.
Thank you SamW. :clapping:
:banana:
Knitting!!!!!
no way have I got the patience for that.
Thank you SamW. :clapping:
:banana:Knitting!!!!!
no way have I got the patience for that.
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Yep, there is a reason to put them under the bench...
When I installed the first drill press base in the shops, I cut the post pipe to about 1/16" longer than would fit under the bench.
Made a collar to receive the top of the pipe and screwed it in place.
Then jacked up the bench, shoved the pipe & base under it, and dropped it down on top of the pipe & base.
Since the bench, fully loaded, probably weighs in the neighborhood of 500-600 pounds - it ain't going anywhere.
Brian
When I installed the first drill press base in the shops, I cut the post pipe to about 1/16" longer than would fit under the bench.
Made a collar to receive the top of the pipe and screwed it in place.
Then jacked up the bench, shoved the pipe & base under it, and dropped it down on top of the pipe & base.
Since the bench, fully loaded, probably weighs in the neighborhood of 500-600 pounds - it ain't going anywhere.
Brian
Well the blackening was questionally successful. I don't know what grade of stainless it is. This product works better on some than others, sometimes you need to etch the steel first. I use it to blacken backgrounds and then sand off the top.
(like going to 150% on the reactor, it's possible captain,... but i would not advise it)
The hard ground is pretty easy to get to sit on your leaf and just flow into the cuts around it... the stems are harder... with a little practice this would be possible. I told mum I would try to make the silver and gold stand out more. It wouldn't take much effort to sand the 'blue'off
Thierry Duguet
Elite Cafe Member
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I think that the idea of teeth is
Dave London
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Thierry keep typing
Thierry Duguet
Elite Cafe Member
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I think that the idea of teeth "biting" on gold is amusing but does not have much to do with reality. Gold sprays, every metal does with more or less difficulties, when you press or hammer gold you can see it spay on the top of the surface, the same spraying happen on the bottom of the gold, if the piece of gold repose on a randomly undercut surface that praying is going to force that unique piece of metal in multiple contrary direction, you actually dovetail the gold.
Creating a complicate and time consuming pattern is mostly useless and waste a lot of gold because it forces the engraver to cut deeper than necessary. A simple random undercutting (random not only on direction but also in angle of attack) is both more economical and faster, I will also argue that it is more durable. Just because that technique was depicted in Meek book does not mean that it is the only way to do it or that it is the most efficient.
As for your work, Dany, I think that it is both tasteful and attractive, my only critic might be the shading, I think that the shading cuts are too linear, I think that they should start light and become progressively deeper wider as you get closer to their base.
Creating a complicate and time consuming pattern is mostly useless and waste a lot of gold because it forces the engraver to cut deeper than necessary. A simple random undercutting (random not only on direction but also in angle of attack) is both more economical and faster, I will also argue that it is more durable. Just because that technique was depicted in Meek book does not mean that it is the only way to do it or that it is the most efficient.
As for your work, Dany, I think that it is both tasteful and attractive, my only critic might be the shading, I think that the shading cuts are too linear, I think that they should start light and become progressively deeper wider as you get closer to their base.
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Thierry Duguet
Elite Cafe Member
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- Jun 4, 2007
- Messages
- 359
LOL, thank for the encouragement!
Thank you Thierry. I totally agree about the shading. I am used to cutting titanium so when i go to pure gold and silver i struggle to have a soft enough touch. I couldn't make them very deep either because of the amount of stoning and sanding i did there wasn't much between the silver and the teeth(which I did touch lightly on a few lines.
I really do like working with the solid hammer wacks, very satisfying feeling the silver spray, smush, squirt and spread around under your under cuts.
I really do like working with the solid hammer wacks, very satisfying feeling the silver spray, smush, squirt and spread around under your under cuts.
You are learning well Danae, and I expect there are others gaining from this thread. The more solid the set-up the better feel you will have of what the metal is doing. Yes, the inlay material does splay out into the undercut "teeth" and I suppose with all the hammering the teeth will be forced down a tiny bit "grabbing" the wire. The reason the teeth/undercuts are kept to a fairly high angle is to avoid their collapsing and stopping the inlay material from splaying/flowing into the undercut.
As for random teeth, I use them when I do (seldom) sheet inlay but with the .016 inch gold wire I normally use I find the Meek described method insures good coverage and uniformity of undercuts. I do not try to make the "teeth" cuts exactly parallel, they tend to wiggle about and do not look uniform like a file. And when I get an area of too much flat metal between teeth I just go back and add a small line in that area. In other words, I spend as little time as possible cutting the teeth and still get good coverage and depth.
To avoid cutting shading lines into the tips of teeth you might want to take the inlay area down a bit deeper before adding teeth, etc. And be sure to skim a flat graver across the top of the teeth to eliminate any errant bits of metal sticking up above the rest of the teeth.
I have added a photo of a gold inlay on a floorplate that was done with .016 inch (0.4 mm) wire. This was done in raised format, the steel sculpted into the deer shape prior to cutting the teeth so that the thickness of the gold was fairly uniform with the basic sculpting already showing in the gold. This really helps in not cutting into teeth while sculpting the gold.
As for random teeth, I use them when I do (seldom) sheet inlay but with the .016 inch gold wire I normally use I find the Meek described method insures good coverage and uniformity of undercuts. I do not try to make the "teeth" cuts exactly parallel, they tend to wiggle about and do not look uniform like a file. And when I get an area of too much flat metal between teeth I just go back and add a small line in that area. In other words, I spend as little time as possible cutting the teeth and still get good coverage and depth.
To avoid cutting shading lines into the tips of teeth you might want to take the inlay area down a bit deeper before adding teeth, etc. And be sure to skim a flat graver across the top of the teeth to eliminate any errant bits of metal sticking up above the rest of the teeth.
I have added a photo of a gold inlay on a floorplate that was done with .016 inch (0.4 mm) wire. This was done in raised format, the steel sculpted into the deer shape prior to cutting the teeth so that the thickness of the gold was fairly uniform with the basic sculpting already showing in the gold. This really helps in not cutting into teeth while sculpting the gold.
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Dave London
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Thierry
Thanks I have tried your method and it works fine:clapping:
Thanks I have tried your method and it works fine:clapping:
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