Question: niter bluing

[tdelewis]

What is the chemical that is used in niter bluing? What is the temperature that is necessary for the salt to melt? Is there a way to set up niter bluing for small parts such as screws without investing in expensive equipment?

 

[dlilazteca]

Brownells has all the information you need including the chemical that is needed and a manual explaining temperatures for different colors and prep work the manual can be downloaded for free without having to purchase the chemical then for different ideas on heating YouTube is a great wealth of knowledge and what different people use to heat up their solution.

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[Victorvile]

A BLEND OF SODIUM NITRITE AND SODIUM HYDROXIDE. tEMPERATURE 130 CENTIGRADE

 

[TallGary]

Link to the Brownell's pdf. http://www.brownells.com/GunTech/NitreBlue-Bluing/detail.htm?lid=10766

Safety first when you use something like this. The salts are melted at ~ 600F, and they are strong oxidizers.

 

[highveldt]

Potassium Nitrate (commonly known as saltpeter) is the original and the real "chemical" to use. The temperature that you will likely find as best is in the range of 800 to 1000 degrees F. Be sure to wear gloves and face shield, as just a bit of water will cause a violent reaction as this temperature. About 875 to 900 degrees F works best for me.

The product that Brownells is not true nitre blue but a chemical that they have had made up. It never brings the true nitre blue colors to steel as the English gunsmiths produce . It works and is OK I guess for the people who do not know any better.

I nitre blue small screws, triggers and so forth in a small stainless steel container that you can buy in the pet food area at Walmart or a pet store. You can use a Coleman propane gas burner to heat and melt the salts which will began melting at about 600 degrees F. The late Dr. Oscar Gaddy, wrote about the process in the Double Gun Journal more than a decade ago. You can telephone the Double Gun Journal folks at their office/home in East Jordan, Michigan and buy the issue that Dr. Gaddy described the process. You can buy potassium nitrate on eBay. For what you want to do you will only need 1-2 pounds. Even if you have to purchase a single Coleman type burner from the camping section of Walmart and buy the salts along with the stainless steel container you can do it all for under $30.00

 

[tdelewis]

Thanks so much! This is really good info. Is there any way to read the temperature of the melted salts without a thermometer, such as color of the salts?

 

[dclevinger]

The color of the salts does not change with heat so a thermometer is the only way. I use a 1200 watt hot plate with the salts in a cheap stainless pot. The most expensive part of it is the salts because of the haz mat shipping cost.
Another option for screws and pins is to use a heat gun. If I have one or two screws to do I will use the gun instead of taking the time to get a whole pot of salts up to temperature. The downside of the heat gun is that it is easy to go past the color you want. With the salts, I get them to settle at the temp I want for about ten minutes and then drop the parts in. Much less chance of getting too hot and it is easier to get a uniform color on multiple parts.

 

[jerrywh]

Don't take advise from armatures. Go to Brownells. I do a lot of this stuff. 1/2 the advise you get any place else will be wrong. Guaranteed.

 

[highveldt]

Thanks so much! This is really good info. Is there any way to read the temperature of the melted salts without a thermometer, such as color of the salts?

A thermometer for the temperature range up to 1000 degrees is fairly cheap today, and you may find one at Harbor Freight to your needs for less than $20.00. I still use the old analog one that I have had for many years and although the accuracy of it is not as good as the modern "scanner" electronic type you can buy now, it is OK for what I need.

When I was living and working in England and would visit with some of the English gunmakers in Birmingham, I do not recall seeing them use a thermometer when heating and melting the potassium nitrate. I have always used one. Maybe I should give Malcolm Cruxton a call there in Price Steet Birmingham and ask him. Like me Malcolm is now in his 70's and still working in the trade.

I recall that Dr. Oscar Gaddy used a thermometer as well. He was the best I have ever encountered doing real nitre bluing and color case hardening; and I once sent a Daniel Frazer hammer gun up to him for color case hardening. When it returned it was just beautiful, and remained so for all the time I owned it. His work was the equal to the best of the English. Dr. Gaddy was singularly responsible for the renewal of quality color case hardening and nitre bluing in America. His techniques at this renewal were and are used even among some of the European. gunmakers. Although before his death he published the important parts of his methods, I am afraid that some of his useful methods went with him to the grave. He must have been a outstanding professor to sit in a class at his university and listen to his lectures.

Regards;
Steve

 

[jerrywh]

Brownell.

 

[mitch]

Don't take advise from armatures. Go to Brownells. I do a lot of this stuff. 1/2 the advise you get any place else will be wrong. Guaranteed.

"armatures"? did you mean "amateurs"? and was that a shot at somebody in particular in this thread?

 

[jerrywh]

My remarks are intended for no body in particular. The plain fact is about 1/2 of the advise I hear on different forum is just plain wrong or at least partially wrong and that is very misleading to some body who is looking for accurate information. They would be better off without any.
If the shoe fits wear it.
PS. I wouldn't want to be the person who mixed up a batch of sodium hydroxide with sodium nitrate. That is a disastrous combo. I think he meant sodium Nitrate.

 

[gcleaker]

I have two cents to put into this. I have spoken to the former floor manager of Ithaca gun not the current one but from the early 60’S Mr. Tommy Lee and he tells me that the correct bluing is black oxiced, heated to 286 degrees. And that Ithaca had used this method for decades prior to his employment. (This is the horse’s mouth)
Some people dream of worthy accomplishments while other stays awake and do them.

 

[dlilazteca]

"armatures"? did you mean "amateurs"? and was that a shot at somebody in particular in this thread?

Mitch,

I agree that comment could have been avoided, either help or dont, but no need to out down anyone on this forum.

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[JJ Roberts]

I would just get the equipment for Niter bluing from Brownells and stay away from trying to mix the chemicals yourself it could be dangerous,if you have any problems they a staff of gunsmiths that are there to help. J.J.

 

[jerrywh]

Normally wouldn't say anything but when it gets to the point that it might put somebody in the hospital or kill them I think something ought to be said. Does anybody here think different? Or just let them go ahead. I can hear it now. Sam Alfano's web sight said that's how you do it. I'll bet the lawyers would love that one.

 

[mitch]

jerry, i agree that "Victorvile's" comment, "A BLEND OF SODIUM NITRITE AND SODIUM HYDROXIDE. tEMPERATURE 130 CENTIGRADE" was perhaps overly simplified, at best, and possibly erroneous and strongly ill-advised, at worst, but the others seem cogent and well considered from folks with legitimate experience. your blanket statement about amateurs was tarring with a broad brush.

 

[jerrywh]

jerry, i agree that "Victorvile's" comment, "A BLEND OF SODIUM NITRITE AND SODIUM HYDROXIDE. tEMPERATURE 130 CENTIGRADE" was perhaps overly simplified, at best, and possibly erroneous and strongly ill-advised, at worst, but the others seem cogent and well considered from folks with legitimate experience. your blanket statement about amateurs was tarring with a broad brush.

It should only be offensive to amateures if you don't know what your talking about. It was meant to stop dangerous and misleading information. I hope it worked and I'm not one bit sorry. Check this out. Then reconsider your lecture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmktRTHL1NA.
Ps. Modern bluing salts like oxinate7 are a combination of Sodium hydroxide and potassium nitrate. They are not for niter bluing and I wouldn't want to be mixing them up myself. So the info is only half wrong.

 

[Leland Davis]

I use Brownells niter blue and a Lyman lead casting pot for small parts it works very well and as long as you keep water out of it you don't have any problems, fast and simple I like that.
Leland

 

[mitch]

i'm not going to reconsider anything, Jerry. if you have a problem with something a specific poster(s) wrote, then address them and their apparent misinformation directly. your condescending blanket dismissal of every contributor to this thread as an "armature"[sic] or "amateures"[sic] was uncalled for. in fact, your attitude seems to be that you're the only expert on this topic. how are we to know that you're right and everyone else is wrong? other than your say so, of course?

there is a vast amount of experience and knowledge available on this forum, some of it dealing with processes and chemicals that can be hazardous. people should ALWAYS double- and triple-check their info before sailing into unknown waters. nitre (btw- that's the correct spelling of that, too) bluing can be dangerous. kids don't try this at home. so stipulated. happy now?