complaining- price wow

[jerrywh]

Glen steel blanks $14.00 each!!
That's about $100.00 for 6 of them. Getting kind of rough isn't it?? Where else can we go? This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Dave London]

Lindsay HSS. $30.00 five pack MTC

 

[Flashmo]

M42 drill blanks from McMasterCarr set in square brass tubing. Search "John B's clever little gravers". Will run around $5 each when making a batch.

 

[Sandy]

Round glen steel is $5.95-$6.95

 

[Tira]

I sell blanks made that are great for stainless and other materials - $45 for a 5 pack. = )

 

[sam]

I prefer Glensteel round blanks, and they are $5.95 to $6.95 ea.

 

[jerrywh]

I have always liked the square blanks because they are easier to index for me in the quick change holders. Also they make good flats. Glen steel is good stuff but i'm going to try lyndsey's M42 cobalt and see how they work. I have a couple of students and they probably think I'm gouging them for that little piece of steel at $14.00.

 

[Brian Marshall]

(Leaving out the carbon steel and HSS full length gravers made by E. C. Muller and others - often sold directly/retail to the public. https://ecmuller.com/ )


NONE of the 2" to 2.5" graver blanks (squares or rounds) sold nowadays are made by the tool vendors - other than some made by NGraver perhaps?


Originally, way back in what now seem to be prehistoric times - there used to be commonly available 3/32" square lathe tools that were adopted by engravers using power assisted equipment.

These were available in carbides and HSS steels. In those days my favorite one was "MoMax", a very good high speed steel alloy... this would have been sometime in the '70's?


Eventually, the machine tool makers and suppliers quit making them because there just wasn't sufficient demand, they were being replaced by the insert system in that industry anyway.


So the engraving tool vendors then bought quantities of 1/8" square lathe bits in various grades of carbide, HSS and M42 and had them ground down to 3/32" in bulk.

Those have gotten more expensive to "regrind" down to 3/32" over the years - though the total cost (blanks & grinding) is still well under $4 at the wholesale level.


So along comes the idea to try and switch everyone over to using round blanks. (Drill bit blanks) Not a new idea, but one with more profit.

The collets to hold and index them are a HUGE money maker as well... so this guarantees that many many more of those will be sold as well.


Drill bit blanks come in all kinds of compositions - micrograin carbide, HSS, M42 - and at the wholesale level cost a buck or two... probably far less if you can use a pallet load?

These 2" to 2.5" blanks - both square and the "new" round configuration - are originally sourced from China these days... we don't make much of anything in the US anymore...



Brian


P.S. - All the fancy names - "Glensteel", "X7", "Carbalt", "CMax", etc. are trade brand names.

None of the engraving tool companies actually melts, pours, rolls, slits, or draws out their own proprietary alloys.

They buy 'em and then retail them.

You can buy 'em too - "generically"... if you take the time to hunt 'em down. Even make up your own "Kryptonite" brand name and etch it on 'em!

Kinda like getting a generic prescription at your pharmacy. Same stuff without the magical "name"...

 

[SalihKara]

A few weeks ago I paid 27 USD for 20 pcs 4mm X 5 cm round blank carbid gravers.

One of them can last just a little bit more than 3 months and I am also happy with their performance. I engrave almost 100 hours in a month.

I buy them from a Turkish manufacturer in my country.

 

[sparklemotion]

Every time I try to go down the rabbit hole that is steel alloys I end up regretting it, so maybe one of you can help me figure this out.

Is there any reason why 3/32" square keystock would be inappropriate for use as graver blanks? For example, this Fastenal product (1095) is $2.13 for 12 inches (wholesale, call it $5 retail), or if you want to go less brittle, they have a 1018 version available as well.

It seems to me that that math works out to 6 square blanks for $5.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Because that kind of keystock is way too soft for a start... you'd need high carbon, dunno if they make it in "keystock" - or if it would come hard enough to take and keep an edge/point.

I have in the past soldered carbide chunks to keystock, carefully and without quenching - to create various "trick" gravers. Doglegs and such...

But there are several conditions you have to meet to in order to get a usable tool. The main one being advanced soldering skills.


Brian

 

[Dave London]

Also available is W1 3/32 key stock,if you know how to harden and temper YMMV

 

[Andrew Biggs]

I remember Ken Hunt at the Grand Masters talked about using a fencing sword blade as a graver just to see if it worked…………and it did. So maybe go around fencing clubs and try and pick up used blades. That would be cheaper again.

What is this obsession with getting gravers as cheap as possible???

I would have thought that buying something fit for the job and something that you are familiar with as well as you know the idiosyncrasies of, would be the better deal……….regardless of price.

Why go through all the bother of buying, shaping and experimenting with all the cheap graver materials under the sun when you can buy a quality one from one of the suppliers that will do the job straight off the bat?

So what if a graver is $14………that’s cheap when you weigh up the cost of the canvases we are engraving on, the time spent doing it and the life of the graver spread over how ever many jobs.

If you like a certain graver material and are familiar with its idiosyncrasies then keep using it. After all, how many of these things do you use up in a year??? It’s peanuts compared to what we charge and the work we produce.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[John B.]

Also available is W1 3/32 key stock,if you know how to harden and temper YMMV

Hi David,
I have some 3/32 square rod in W-1 and O-1 that will harden and make pretty good gravers.
Do you know where to buy it now, my supplier is out of business.?
There also was one company that used to sell proper soft non-hardenable 3/32" key stock. They are also out of business.
That is what I first used to hold the 1/16" graver stock to make my little gravers before I found the brass tube.
I had to center drill it with a 1/16" drill and needless to say a lot of work and I made a lot of 2nds.
Thank the good Lord for the brass tubing.

 

[John B.]

Andrew, thank you for the info on Ken Hunts rapier blade gravers. That's a gas.
Just to be clear though, I want others to understand. I don't make my little gravers just for the money saving idea.
I make them to have a 3/32'' indexable end and a nice thin 1/16 " blade that does not take a lot of grinding and dust to have a small point that is easy to see around and is small and easy to resharpen.
It's a great blessing that we have good suppliers of first rate graver blanks at doable prices in this country.

 

[sparklemotion]

Because that kind of keystock is way too soft for a start... you'd need high carbon, dunno if they make it in "keystock" - or if it would come hard enough to take and keep an edge/point.

And this is where my confusion sets in. it's my understanding that 1095, at 0.95% carbon is a high carbon steel. It's popular with knife makers and users for it's ability to "take and keep an edge/point."

Is this a question of wanting to be able to use the blank without having to harden/temper? Because those operations seem easy enough to perform on material of this size using a torch. The process that I use when making chasing punches and stamps is generally described here, and I've applied it to material up to 1/2" using just a map-pro plumbers torch as my heat source -- 3/32" would be luxury.

 

[Dave London]

Hi John
Onlinemetals carries W1 key stock. Look Under tool steel square stock. I would add a link if I knew how

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Andrew, thank you for the info on Ken Hunts rapier blade gravers. That's a gas.

And whats more, he stuck them in a cut off broom handle to hand push...........why? Because he could

John...your little gravers are great and I still use the ones you sent me for scene work whenever I get the opportunity. They are small and easy to shape up and sharpen to razor points. And the indexing makes them perfect for the Dual Angle fixture.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[John B.]

And whats more, he stuck them in a cut off broom handle to hand push...........why? Because he could

John...your little gravers are great and I still use the ones you sent me for scene work whenever I get the opportunity. They are small and easy to shape up and sharpen to razor points. And the indexing makes them perfect for the Dual Angle fixture.

Cheers
Andrew

Thanks Andrew, yes it's handy to have indexable gravers whatever the size or method of sharpening.

Quote Dave London
Hi John
Onlinemetals carries W1 key stock. Look Under tool steel square stock. I would add a link if I knew how

Thanks for the direction to onlinemetals Dave.
And that makes the pair of we computer geniuses that don't know how to add a link.

 

[sparklemotion]

Onlinemetals carries W1 key stock. Look Under tool steel square stock. I would add a link if I knew how

Thanks for the direction to onlinemetals Dave.
And that makes the pair of we computer geniuses that don't know how to add a link.

Well, there is one thing I do know:
Online Metals Part #19374 - pack of 5 36" long 3/32" Square Cold Drawn Tool Steel W1 - $10.38/pack