Does any one use bent liners?

[rafrisch]

Hey all- First time posting. Great information and wonderful support from fellow engravers on here, it's nice to see!
For my entire 25 year hand engraving career I've always used bent liners, point tools and flat gravers for all the engraving I've done. The vast majority of which were letters and inscriptions on jewelry, trays and trophies. I'm curious if any of you use bent liners for letter "widths" in your engraving? I'd like to learn some new skills, specifically scroll work on knives and guns. Is that even possible without the use of air assist? Being a push hand engraver has limited me to silver, gold and sometimes platinum. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

 

[monk]

i have used them to a limited degree. curved liners , like many other tools, seem to be favored by some, and avoided by others. i never met an onglete that ever worked in my hand. as for push work, all your time with soft metals is rather unchallenging compared to gun work.after years of such, you'll find a bit of challenge to start on the hard metals. especially guns, as you'll experience compound curves like you've never experienced doing jewelry. as far as push work goes, it's been done for a very long time by giun engravers before air assist became a reality. hammer and chisel was also used for the same gun work.
the air toys will speed things up, but remember-- the skill is in the hand, not the tool. i hope you decide to get serious about this new venture. before actually doing guns, i'd suggest havig a try on flat mild steel or cold rolled. good luck in your pursuit.

 

[allan621]

I use them everyday and they keep the letters uniform with each other. I do a lot of jewelry and trophies so I have them from 6-4 through 6-8 and 8-6 through 8-10. I also have a bent 16-12 used for florentine finishes on rings and small items as well as a a few 10 width liners for large letters on large trophies. I also use bent liners in cutting the shields down on coat of arms rings.

I've tried using curved and straight liners but never could get the hang of using them.

If you work on jewelry the air tools are invaluable. I've had my Lindsay airgraver for almost 20 years and in that time I can say that I haven't had any slips or gouges due to the point of the tool breaking like I did the previous twenty years when it was all hand push work. It literally pays for itself over time in the hours you don't spend stoning down the metal or replacing thin pieces with unrepairable slips.

You seem to have a pretty good set of tools. I started with a watchmakers loop but as soon as I could afford one I bought an optivisor. Now I use a microscope. Started out trying to sharpen tools by hand and moved onto a crocker sharpener; now I use a power sharpener with a speed control. So it goes.

I see you have a set of attachments that probably came with your GRS block. If I can make one suggestion its this. Start using hot glue to hold your work. I buy cheap yardsticks or paint stirrers from home depot and take a jewelers coping saw to cut it down to the size I need. If you do cufflinks you cut a hole in the wood like the picture. The back goes down the hole and the top stays flat and holds without any sliding or cutting of the holders into the sides.

Even for smaller objects like round disc earrings that are small, I drill holes in the wood, put down drop of glue and push the pin into the hole. It holds and the entire top is exposed without any holder overlap.

Even things that are really hard to hold like dumbell rattles and watch clasps are easy with the glue. The glue comes off with rubbing alcohol. It may take you a time or two to get the hang of it but its worth it.

Allan

 

[rafrisch]

I use them everyday and they keep the letters uniform with each other. I do a lot of jewelry and trophies so I have them from 6-4 through 6-8 and 8-6 through 8-10. I also have a bent 16-12 used for florentine finishes on rings and small items as well as a a few 10 width liners for large letters on large trophies. I also use bent liners in cutting the shields down on coat of arms rings.

I've tried using curved and straight liners but never could get the hang of using them.

If you work on jewelry the air tools are invaluable. I've had my Lindsay airgraver for almost 20 years and in that time I can say that I haven't had any slips or gouges due to the point of the tool breaking like I did the previous twenty years when it was all hand push work. It literally pays for itself over time in the hours you don't spend stoning down the metal or replacing thin pieces with unrepairable slips.

You seem to have a pretty good set of tools. I started with a watchmakers loop but as soon as I could afford one I bought an optivisor. Now I use a microscope. Started out trying to sharpen tools by hand and moved onto a crocker sharpener; now I use a power sharpener with a speed control. So it goes.

I see you have a set of attachments that probably came with your GRS block. If I can make one suggestion its this. Start using hot glue to hold your work. I buy cheap yardsticks or paint stirrers from home depot and take a jewelers coping saw to cut it down to the size I need. If you do cufflinks you cut a hole in the wood like the picture. The back goes down the hole and the top stays flat and holds with any sliding or cutting of the holders into the sides.

Even for smaller objects like round disc earrings that are small, I drill holes in the wood, put down drop of glue and push the pin into the hole. It holds and the entire top is exposed without any holder overlap.

Even things that are really hard to hold like dumbell rattles and watch clasps are easy with the glue. The glue comes off with rubbing alcohol. It may take you a time or two to get the hang of it but its worth it.

Allan View attachment 45670

i have used them to a limited degree. curved liners , like many other tools, seem to be favored by some, and avoided by others. i never met an onglete that ever worked in my hand. as for push work, all your time with soft metals is rather unchallenging compared to gun work.after years of such, you'll find a bit of challenge to start on the hard metals. especially guns, as you'll experience compound curves like you've never experienced doing jewelry. as far as push work goes, it's been done for a very long time by giun engravers before air assist became a reality. hammer and chisel was also used for the same gun work.
the air toys will speed things up, but remember-- the skill is in the hand, not the tool. i hope you decide to get serious about this new venture. before actually doing guns, i'd suggest havig a try on flat mild steel or cold rolled. good luck in your pursuit.

Thanks for your thoughts. The company I've worked with for the past 25 years has always insisted on push engraving rather than air assist engraving, so I've had very few opportunities to try air assist. I've engraved many finely ribboned monograms over the years, so I feel pretty confident with compound curves and similar cuts. A few of my colleagues were gun engravers at one point, and are familiar with hammer and chisel gun engraving. Do you know where I could purchase steel plates online to practice on?

 

[rafrisch]

Thanks Allan for your thoughts and tips. That photo sort of represents my "traveling show" sort of set up. Sometimes, I'll visit stores to demonstrate the hand engraving craft. So, it doesn't really show my normal set up at my desk back at the shop. I like your idea of the glue. I had turned a set of bicycle links of all things, into holders for tags and other pieces and I've found they work perfect, without digging into the sides of pieces. As for the loupe, I use anywhere from a 3.5x to a 5x...It seems to work ok for jewelry. But, I would imagine if I get into fine scroll work, I'd have to try the microscope. I'm so used to push engraving, I wonder how long it would take to get comfortable with a Lindsay air graver. Not to mention the price point...yikes. But I've heard the quality is amazing and his customer service is second to none.

 

[monk]

Thanks for your thoughts. The company I've worked with for the past 25 years has always insisted on push engraving rather than air assist engraving, so I've had very few opportunities to try air assist. I've engraved many finely ribboned monograms over the years, so I feel pretty confident with compound curves and similar cuts. A few of my colleagues were gun engravers at one point, and are familiar with hammer and chisel gun engraving. Do you know where I could purchase steel plates online to practice on?

grs sells cold rolled practice plates. a quicker, and way cheaper source would be your local scrapyard or machine shop. "drops" of a suitable size can be obtained there for free or almost free.