Any script engravers on this forum?

Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
15
Thread starter #1
Hello everyone! My name is David. I'm a penman who focuses quite heavily on American Roundhand, (sometimes called 'Engraver's Script') Here's an example: http://instagr.am/p/Br1KLlenPaI/
I'd love to speak with anyone experienced with engraving similar script about some of the technical aspects/processes of cutting the letters and cross-reference that with some of the characteristics that are present when penning these scripts. Is there anyone here that comes to mind?
 

mitch

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
2,206
#2
A lot of us do some script in the course of our duties, but Sam Alfano is probably the guy you're looking for...
 

tdelewis

Elite Cafe Member
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Oct 10, 2010
Messages
401
Location
Volant, PA 60 miles north of Pittsburgh
#5
Sam Alfano has a DVD that will give good instructions. I think you could purchase it from this site. Also, I have been practicing hand engraved script without any assistance from a pneumatic hand piece, Just hand push, I have found that it is not that difficult.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
15
Thread starter #8
Thanks for the suggestions so far. I'm familiar with Mr. Alfano's work, but hadn't heard of the others. I'll look into it!
 

pilkguns

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
1,838
Location
in the land of Scrolls,
#10
I guess I would be very curious about how the penning process of this font goes per se. I'm not sure you are going to find any similarities. The Engravers Script was created to be engraved simply and quickly by a right handed graver. The combined motion of the right hand, wrist and shoulder create a fulcrum to push the work INTO. yes, ideally your hand and thus the graver it is holding remains basically motionless in most jobs.

A number of the books mentioned above contain the engravers script alphabet, which has arrows point which direction the cuts must/should be made.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
15
Thread starter #11
Sam Alfano has a DVD that will give good instructions. I think you could purchase it from this site. Also, I have been practicing hand engraved script without any assistance from a pneumatic hand piece, Just hand push, I have found that it is not that difficult.
I'd love to see any photos you have of your script that is cut without power. That would be really neat.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
15
Thread starter #12
I guess I would be very curious about how the penning process of this font goes per se. I'm not sure you are going to find any similarities. The Engravers Script was created to be engraved simply and quickly by a right handed graver. The combined motion of the right hand, wrist and shoulder create a fulcrum to push the work INTO. yes, ideally your hand and thus the graver it is holding remains basically motionless in most jobs.

A number of the books mentioned above contain the engravers script alphabet, which has arrows point which direction the cuts must/should be made.
The script is made almost entirely from top to bottom. Each of the shapes are created with pen motion and pressure in some combination. I'm trying to find a connection to the history surrounding larger engravings of this type of work from the 1600s and such. Those pieces would not likely have been rotated the same as smaller work, right?
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
75
Location
Central Kentucky
#13
The script is made almost entirely from top to bottom. Each of the shapes are created with pen motion and pressure in some combination. I'm trying to find a connection to the history surrounding larger engravings of this type of work from the 1600s and such. Those pieces would not likely have been rotated the same as smaller work, right?
Sir I'm a neophyte to this to put it mildly. but in some cases on larger pieces, the OBJECT doesn't move, rather the person engraving it does. For example you might have a piece locked down to a vice in the middle of an open floor, the engraver would then "flow" around it with his hammer and chisel, how this applies directly to script is beyond my ken.
 

allan621

Elite Cafe Member
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
103
#14
Well okay, here goes. This is going to be a bit long.
1.
The pen script font is made of various parts that have a uniform structure. So the ascender swashes of the l's and b's should look close to identical, the lower case stems are of niform width and are they are slanted at the same angle and so forth. This is done through the rotation of the nib so if done well it glides from full width for the stem to a thin line for the lead in stroke. And then repeated for the next letter. Uniformity is the key to fine looking traditional pen work. And having a single nib width for the series of letters add to the uniformity. I think it wouldn't work to pick a wide nib and then attempt to pen a narrower letter.

Script hand engraving is an attempt to mimic pen work. When I draw script for engraving, here is the process. First I clean the surface of the metal of any polishing compound and then apply a white watercolor. The white watercolor is so I can see the pencil sketches I am about to make. I use a pencil to draw in the guidelines and like pen work its important to use the right amount of available space.

Once the guidelines are in place I make the first sketch of the letters. If they aren't right I use another coat of white watercolor, light enough so I can see the letters underneath, go over them and correct them. When the letters are right I scratch them in with a scriber and remove the watercolor.

The letters are drawn and scribed so the resemble pen letters. If you look at the sketch you can see the letters are outlined so they look like they were done with a weird nib.

A bit more tomorrow about using computer generated fonts before getting into the cutting details.
 

Attachments

Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
15
Thread starter #15
This is done through the rotation of the nib so if done well it glides from full width for the stem to a thin line for the lead in stroke. And then repeated for the next letter. Uniformity is the key to fine looking traditional pen work. And having a single nib width for the series of letters add to the uniformity. I think it wouldn't work to pick a wide nib and then attempt to pen a narrower letter.
In general, this is mostly true for work prior to the 1800s, but penmen use nibs that are variable width due to pressure, so there is little pen rotation and the shades (wider strokes) all tend to appear along a consistent axis and slant. Drawing the work is a valid method for diagramming letterforms when learning these types of calligraphic scripts, too, but there are nibs that are rigid enough they could be used to make the indentations/scratches that you are achieving with a scriber, especially if the writing was small enough!

Fascinating to learn about the watercolor. That does make sense, but I would have expected something else, like a transfer of some kind.

Grateful for you sharing!
 

pmace

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2010
Messages
114
Location
Arizona City, AZ
#16
I’ve often wondered if the engraving for printing using Roundhand is different than the engraving for ornamentation. The leaned over square graver makes beautiful flares but is that deep enough to hold ink? I’ve never seen an old printing plate so I have nothing to go by.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
Messages
15
Thread starter #17
Just chatted with my buddy Skyler about this an hour ago! Apparently, hand-engraved script tends to have multiple cuts in the bottom of the letters to help the ink hold and print out, unlike stone, which would be cut as a v from both sides?
 

JJ Roberts

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
2,882
Location
Manassas, VA
#18
Masgrimes,Beautiful penmanship keep up the good work it's a shame they don't teach cursive in schools anymore when I went to school it was a must to learn good cursive penmanship,I got A's in penmanship and really enjoyed it.The youth today can't even read cursive,shame. J.J.
 

John B.

~ Elite 1000 Member ~
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
3,109
Location
Los Angeles area, California.
#19
Just chatted with my buddy Skyler about this an hour ago! Apparently, hand-engraved script tends to have multiple cuts in the bottom of the letters to help the ink hold and print out, unlike stone, which would be cut as a v from both sides?
He may have been talking about " threaded" script rather than the "flair cut" variety.
 

pmace

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2010
Messages
114
Location
Arizona City, AZ
#20
Anyone have any reference material on engraving for printing? You see fine examples of various “hands” that were done prior to photolithography and it makes you wonder how much of that skill was the penman and how much was the engraver. It’s like Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. She had to do everything he did, but backwards.
 

Latest posts

Sponsors

Top