Beaded Background Questions

[CUTTING METAL]

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I have had zero success trying to get a satisfactory beaded background. Any help would be more than appreciated. I have some punch dot tools from Ngraver that are small enough to work around scrollwork, but are to large to use in my GraverMax. If I use them with a hammer, I can't see well enough with my optivisor to work around the leaves properly. I have four punch dot tools that I ordered from GRS sometime ago, but they seem to large to get in between the leaf structures and I haven't been satisfied with the results using the GraverMax. I thought that I had ordered the very smallest ones that GRS sells. I understand that this method is supposed to be alot faster than stippling the background, so what am I doing incorrectly?
Thanks for any help with this problem, Dick Sheehan

 

[Joe Mason]

For me stippling the background is faster than beading. You can grind down the tools to fit in the GRS holder.

joe

 

[jimzim75]

To aid the raising a bead, at least in stone setting. You have to form it with a 90° graver by raising a spur.
Then take the beader and form the dome of the bead. If you have thick enough peace of metal, you don't
have to do the first step. That's is not usually the case in the work I do. Doing the spur forming allow you to
use a quarter of the force need to form it with out forming the spur.

 

[Tim Wells]

I have the same punch dot tools as you and they are good ones. I use them with an optivisor with no problem looking at an angle at where I want the dot. If you'll be more specific in the problems you're having it may help. Are they not placed where you want them to be? Are they not raised enough...etc.

If you want to use one in your handpiece you'll have to make one out of oil hardening drill rod about
1/8" or 3/32" in dia. To do this you'll need a dapping block to make the end of the tool shape. If that is something you want to try I can give you instructions on how to do it and heat treat it. The block is available at Rio Grande and other places like that; the oil hardening drill rod is available at MSC. The block has many raised dots in it and I think is made of carbide, this will give you many sizes of dots to get just the right size for the job.

 

[CUTTING METAL]

Tim,
They are not placing where I want them to be. Maybe if I were to order a more power lens for my optivisor it would clear up my problems. Do you have a power you would recommend for this? I am getting older ( 63 YRS.) and not seeing as good as I used to.

 

[John B.]

Hi Cutting Metal.
A hammer or block of hardwood is the way to go for punch dot background.
I have never seen anyone get a nice even placement using a machine.
As a side note to what you said.
I would advise not to bother ordering a seperate lens plate for your Optivisor.
The lenses cost a good part of the price of the whole unit.
And they are a pain in the neck to change every time.
Just order a #7 or #10 set and you should be able to see what you are trying to do.
I find it much easier to have numbers 3, 5 and 10 Optivisors ready to go for different functions.
Even though I have two microscopes I find them to be very useful for a lot of things.
And the total cost is not too bad. Enco seems to have the lowest price.
Bye the way, the Ngraver dot punches you have are the best I've found for gun steel.
I've made a lot of my own and, like Tim, I love homemade tools.
But its hard to beat the Ngraver punches for price, durability and an exact same size replacement when you break or dull one half way through a job.
That can be a nasty problem with homemade punches and takes a lot of time to solve.
Just my thoughts.
John B.

 

[KSnyder]

Even the .010" wont get between leaves ,it will step on the cut lines. Must be careful where the punch is placed.
Kent

 

[CUTTING METAL]

John B.
I ordered a #7 ( 2 3/4 power ) from this site: http://www.loupe-magnifier.com You may want to check it out as they have really great prices also. Thank you fellows for all your help.
Dick

 

[Markofx]

Jewelers beading tools

Hello,
What you need is jewelers beading tools. They can be purchased at any jewelry supply company. They're as small as a 1/2 mm in size and go up from there. you can buy a set of 20 for about $30.00 or less. Just put the size you need into a quick change collet and hold the tool stright up between your middle finger and your index finger while resting your hand on the object. You can either punch one dot at a time, or by holding the tool about 1/16 above the work griping the tool you can tap with a chasing hammer and move around the area to be textured without stoping to reposition the tool. It sounds harder then it is but it works just fine.
Mark

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Mark

The jewellery beading punches start at 0, 1, 2 etc. The smallest being 0. Some places I believe you can get as small as 00. They are really cheap and it would pay for you to get a few of each size as they do dull after a while. My ones are Swiss made I think that I brought here in NZ and I believe that GRS sells them as well.

What I did for the very tight little spots in the corners where the punches wouldn't fit is just to stipple it so that there is a contrast. I'm not saying that's the right way, it's just what I did.

On the snakes on a plate engraving I used a #0 and #1 punch. I believe traditional Nimschke type backgrounds uses larger punches (but I could be wrong there). It was all done with a hammer, one dot at a time, no air assist. First I went around the outside of the area to be covered and gradually worked my way in. All under the microscope but others do it very successfully with optivisors etc. It took me a lot longer than stippeling.

It's important whatever you use to place the dots next to each other, very neatly. Don't just smash them in any old how and have them overlapping and ploughing up the background as you'll end up with a mess. The idea is to get a nice neat textured background.


Hope this helps

cheers
Andrew

 

[Yves Halliburton]

John B. Have you or anyone else been able to get in contact with NGraver. Their website has been down for some time now and there is no phone and e-mail listed.

 

[KSnyder]

Yves, do a google search : ngraver co. it will come up with a viable web site & all the stuff they carry. ph. numbers follow:
Phone: 860-823-1533
Fax: 860-887-6252

Kent

 

[John B.]

Thanks for posting that, Yves.
Ray at Ngraver has been revising their website for a while.
John B.

 

[msar24]

The main page for the NGraver site does not work but if you go to this one and then use the hyperlinks at the bottom you can see all of their equipment and the price list.

http://www.ngraver.com/engrave.htm

 

[CUTTING METAL]

Special thanks to J.J. Roberts

Thanks again for all the helpful tips and I want to say a special thanks to J.J.Roberts, whom I meet with yesterday at the National Gunshow at the Dullas Expo. center. He not only gave me some great tips on beading a background, but had brought some tools with him so that he could do a demo and give me a try.
One thing he showed me was the importance of really holding the beading tool very firmly with as many fingers as possible when stricking a blow with the hammer. He also told me the same thing as Andrew stated earlier about:
It's important whatever you use to place the dots next to each other, very neatly. Don't just smash them in any old how and have them overlapping and ploughing up the background as you'll end up with a mess. The idea is to get a nice neat textured background.
Best Regards, Dick