Help, please: Chronic Graver Chipping

[Dupont24]

I've been having excellent luck with my 120 graver by sharpening according Sam's Expert Guide to Graver Sharpening, but starting today my luck ran out. I've had to sharpen three times after about 20-30 minutes of cutting because the graver keeps chipping. What are some common pitfalls for newbies like me? I've used both 45 and 50 degree faces with 15 degree heel, both chipped. I used 1200 grit diamond finish and ceramic, both chipped. Could I be pushing to hard instead of letting the hand piece do the cutting? I'm using a Monarch, I think, so I find myself pushing pretty hard to compensate for the small hand piece. Would the 901 be better or worse? I'm just brainstorming, but your tips are appreciated.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

What is the graver you are using?? HSS or carbide??

The hand pieces have nothing to do with it. Sometimes you can get weak spots in gravers. If nothing has changed, then try grinding the face back by one or two mm to get past the weak spot. Then resharpen.


Cheers
Andrew

 

[Beathard]

I usually chip the point when I put some type of sideways pressure on it while cutting: i.e. combination of to tight a radius and to much depth, attempting to restart a cut at the wrong angle, etc... One way to cut down on the breaking is to dub the point of the graver.

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Sometimes, after sharpening, dubbing the point of the graver on a piece of leather works as it is possible for gravers to be too sharp.

But..... occasionally gravers get tired. It sounds weird I know but something seems to happen to the make up of the graver which means it never seems to hold a point. Resting it for a couple of weeks often seems to help it recover. And no, I'm not pulling newbies' legs!

 

[Chujybear]

Could be a matter of the work holding. If the table, or maybe the resin that you piece is set in is not solid... Could lead to breaks.

 

[Dupont24]

Thanks for the tips. The gravers are Glensteel. I have been suspecting a weak spot that may have been created at the time of the first chip. I guess for now I will grind it back a few mm and resharpen. I was hand pushing the wheat border on the same project just two days ago. (I shared a pic of the project in another post.) So the metal is relatively soft, which is why I think it must be a graver weakness.

 

[mitch]

just out of curiosity, what are you cutting? we all run into stuff that occasionally defeats our best efforts at maintaining a sharp point. in fact, i'm cussing & swearing my way thru a knife project right now...

 

[Dupont24]

Mitch, I'm not sure what the metal is, but it's an inexpensive folding knife. Check my other threads to see the "folding knife project" that I posted earlier this week. Right now I'm practicing some English scroll on the same knife.

 

[silverchip]

I'm kinda with Mitch but also the one comment you made about pushing too hard caught my attention.Why are you pushing so hard on a tool that is supposed to create the force required to move the tool forward for you? You may be creating undue torque at the cutting edge while trying to control the direction and depth of the tool.try making two passes at it with lighter touch and let the handpiece do it's job??

 

[Kevin Scott]

Maybe too much downward pressure on the graver??

I suggest this because I had alot of chipping with push power on a stainless Buck 525 knife. I was applying extra pressure downwards to keep the graver from slipping on the hard steel. Then realized the downward pressure was adding to my slipping because it made it harder to push the graver through the metal. Changed to minimum downward pressure and the chipping problems stopped with the same knife and the same graver. Also reduced slipping greatly.

Maybe the extra downward pressure was straining the cutting edge causing it to chip? Don't know, but now keep the downward pressure to a minimum on all metals. Have better control, less slipping, rarely chip the graver, and better results.

Edit: My chipping problems were more on the cutting edge than on the point.

 

[Dupont24]

Thanks, Silverchip, I'm a large man, with large hands and a tendency to push harder than necessary naturally; however I don't think I'm forcing the graver through the metal. I just notice sometimes my fingers and hands feel slightly fatigued indicating that I might be pushing harder than necessary. So far today, I haven't broke a graver, but I've only had about 30-40 minutes at the vise.

 

[James Roettger]

Pushing gravers causes a minor wavering at the point, sorta like putting the tip of a screw driver into a tight crevice and bending, the tip will snap right off. I noticed that when I went from hand pushing to pneumatic my tip breakage went way down. This is because pneumatic power delivers perfectly straight impacts. As you begin to push the wavering factor comes into play and sideways pressure ensues thereby snapping the tip. A more powerful hand piece may help reduce pushing.
Personally my favorite gravers are Steve Lindsay's Carbalt graver tips. They are both tougher and harder than Glensteel.

 

[Sam]

Sorry for the late reply. I've been out of the country for a couple of weeks.

Experienced engravers usually experience longer time between sharpenings because they have better control and more finesse and put less stresses on the point. Sort of like the white-knuckled person learning to fret a guitar who is squeezing with all his his/her might trying to make a chord, while the experienced player places his/her fingers down gently and without stress and strain. Control is the name of the game in hand engraving.

Pushing is a no-no for power users. If you're pushing you're defeating the purpose of a pneumatic handpiece. Some downward pressure is required to keep the graver in the cut, but little or no forward pressure should be used.

 

[dlilazteca]

Sometimes, after sharpening, dubbing the point of the graver on a piece of leather works as it is possible for gravers to be too sharp.

But..... occasionally gravers get tired. It sounds weird I know but something seems to happen to the make up of the graver which means it never seems to hold a point. Resting it for a couple of weeks often seems to help it recover. And no, I'm not pulling newbies' legs!

lol....

read this thread it should help

http://www.engraverscafe.com/showth...g-phenomenon&highlight=interesting+phenomenon

 

[silverchip]

Stick the point in a potato !!

 

[dlilazteca]

Your probably using a left handed graver.

Carlos De La O III

 

[Southern Custom]

You mentioned that you were practicing some English scroll. If you were having chipping problems while doing this on harder steel, it wouldn't surprise me. The gravers for this are cut a bit different from standard. Also, until you get the hang of how to cut it properly, it's easy to put too much strain on a tip
Good luck,
Layne