Design execution

[vilts]

Well, here is the execution of the design I was asking input earlier. But I must say that I'm really not too thrilled about it.

It just looks to me like it doesn't have any life in it. Probably my shading is really lacking. And I still haven't made friends with cross-hatching angels. This is one thing I must really practice.

What do you guys think? Real, honest opinions. I'm sure you can spot a mile away what is wrong with it, just don't hold back your criticism

Thanks!
Viljo

 

[Marcus Hunt]

Hi Viljo, this is not a bad attempt. You’ve executed your design very well and your graver control has definitely improved.

A couple of pointers for you. Firstly, beware of over shading. This is one of the banes of using a microscope in that it’s easy to put in ten shade lines where you’d use four if using a loupe. The shading on the left of the picture is far better than that on the right. The large leaf especially is suffering from over shading and it’s bordering on looking like a messy black blob. Also the scroll peeping out from under this leaf looks unfinished because it looks as if you are afraid to shade it for this very reason.

Secondly, beware of breaking through your border line. Personally it’s something I don’t care for. If you are going to do so, again, don’t over do it. And if you do so, make sure that it is a strong, definite cut otherwise it looks as if you’ve over run into the border by accident.

Finally, be careful not to make your leaves too pointed. What can look quite impressive on paper can be lost when cutting metal and really pointed leaves just fade into nothingness and can get lost against a black background. A slightly more rounded leaf looks much bolder.

Overall though, an excellent effort. Keep it up!

 

[Sam]

Very nice, Viljo. You're coming along quite well. The first thing that stands out to me is the area of heavy leaves to the right of the main scroll. I would like to see a bit more black background in this area as it's a bit unbalanced from the other side of the knife. Of course when you have very wide leaves you have less background options, so I would have drawn them in such a way as to maintain a balance with the rest of the bolster.

As Marcus said, be careful of over shading. We're all guilty of that from time. Extra care must be taken in areas that intertwine and overlap to avoid too much blackness. I approach these areas with caution and try to keep unshaded edges to vines and leaves so their shape is not lost. Unfortunately there's no simple set of shading rules which apply to all components of ornamental engraving. Only with continuous study and practice will an engraver develop the instincts to execute beautiful shading. This is my 28th year as a professional engraver, and I sketch and draw every day and always study the work of others. I still have a lot to learn, and making small discoveries fuels the fire of exploration. You have made wonderful progress since I met you last year. Keep up the good work!! / Sam

 

[vilts]

Marcus and Sam. Thank you very much for your comments. These answers are definitely the ones that I'll print out and probably will come back many times in the future.

Now I can revise the design again and hopefully do better on the other side. Marcus, actually the big leaf you said looks like a strange black blob was the last one I shaded. Especially for the reason that I wasn't sure I could do it. And I couldn't

And Sam, wow, 28 years. Thats nice! Guess how old I am? 28 in April - no wonder you can do a "little" better than I

 

[KCSteve]

Vilts,

All I can say about the feedback you've already recieved is Thanks! - I hope I remember it!

From my much lower level, I agree with you that it does look a bit flat. Some of that might be the lighting in this photo. I also think that the 'surround' might be bringing it down a bit. Right now it's surrounded by just the bare hilt and a rather plain background. All that 'blah' kind of leaches over to the engraving. Try setting it on a nicer background, with better lighting and maybe something to stand in for the scales that will be on the knife and I'll bet it looks better.

Because I don't get as much time to work on my engraving as you do I'll be studying your piece for the things it can teach me - and keeping the feedback you've gotten in mind.

I think that it's not just the high-level feedback we get that's so valuable as being able to see work at various levels.

I look at this and I think it looks pretty nice. But...

Then I read the feedback and look again and say "Oh! That does make a lot of sense!"

And I look at Sam's butter dish knob, or some of the other extremely nice work here and I can not only see what looks better, I can begin to understand why it looks better. Likewise when I next post one of my metallic scribbles I hope that it will help someone else have something 'click'.

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Hi Vilts

This is just my 2 cents worth as well. Others may have a different view.

A guy I met many years ago was a world class nature photographer. He's even written a couple of books. He told me that one of the things that made him so good was the rubbish bin.

He was utterly ruthless with his photos and threw out anything that was not 100%. If in doubt he threw it out and only kept one or two photos that he thought were any good. And so it is with any type of design. We have to be ruthless with them, either as a whole or in the elements that make up the design.

Any design is made up of elements. The individual elements combined then make up the whole design. When you add a leaf, tendril or scroll you have to ask yourself some questions............

1. Does it enhance the design or detract from it?
2. Are you just putting it there to fill a space or for the sake of it without any consideration to the rest of the design?
3. Is the viewer going to be able to see the design clearly?

I think the basic problem with what you've cut is what Sam and Marcus have said but more importantly the design itself. If you look at the top half….. the left, middle and right hand side are very confusing to the eye. There is an over abundance of leaves that cross over one another and nothing is clearly defined. OK shading may help but I doubt it. You would be better off not having certain elements there in the first place.

If you look carefully at the right hand side there is a leaf coming off the backbone of the scroll and then goes under another set of leaves. In effect it blends into the top leaves and destroys the shape of all of them. What you have ended up with is a big mass of leaves that all blend into one another.

You’ve also done this on the left hand side by placing a leaf underneath the top leaf…….thus blending the two together. The middle of the loop of the scroll also suffers the same fate.

Yes, nature is that way, but we are not recreating nature, we are creating a stylised interpretation of it.

So have a look at the above 3 questions and answer them ruthlessly and throw away any elements that do not enhance the design or bring confusion to the eye.

Try to draw clearly defined shapes (elements) so that the human eye can see clearly the rhythm and pattern of your work. Get rid of any background clutter as all that brings to any design is confusion.

Anyway, I hope that helps you out a bit.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Andrew Biggs]

Here's a really simple example of what I'm getting at.

The design on the left consists of 3 basic shapes (elements). Then I've added a whole lot more to fill the space. Basically as you can see the whole thing is confused with a whole lot of background clutter. No amount of shadow or shading will save the design as it's just far too confused.

The design on the right is a lot simpler, easy to read with the eye and is balanced. I've eliminated all that unnessassary background clutter and simplified the design. You can now see the shapes of everything quite clearly.

Which is the better design and more pleasing to the eye?

These types of principles apply to all design work. Engraving included.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[CJ Allan]

Good use of "Positive" & "Negative" space equals good design....!!

 

[Powderhorn]

Andrew, CJ, Vilits and others; I think that an old acronym is appropriate here, that is the,"K.I.S.S." factor. What it means is "Keep It Simple S*****". And no I did not complete the last word, cause any of the old military types Intimately know this factor. This is not meant to offend anyone, but it is what I use when doing jewelry, or engraving design, or a few other things. Kind like the drawing Andrew set up, don't make it overly complex, that will come with time, and practice.

 

[alfrisillo]

Thanks

Viljo, thanks for sharing your design with us and a special thanks to all you guys who provided constructive criticism. This is one of the most informative threads I have seen and I am sure, will benefit all of us wannabes.
alf

 

[Ron Smith]

Vilts, as much as all of the critisizm is on track, this is still a nice piece, and the consumer is much more forgiving, depending on the level of your clients. Be very proud of your efforts here. I see great improvement from the first example to the last. All anyone can do is the best they can with the knowledge they have, but that is the point. I can see that you learned a lot, and working with the critisizms and practice it will come to you. Simlicity is the secret to grace, and negative space is as important as any other part of your design. Pay attention to Nimschke's work. He was a master at using negative space.......Ride on Vilts.......Ron S