Doubt sharpening templates Mr. Steve Lindsay

[Brian Marshall]

I can't remember for sure... but I think I used to use a .45 long Colt cartridge casing for a "spacer" back when I used the Crocker? Maybe experiment with one?

I did use a Crocker for 10 or 12 years and I completely wore the bottom "bumps" off of one. Still have it around here somewhere.

Switched to power assist mainly because of modern day graver alloys... life is too short to be working that hard!


Brian

 

[Brian Marshall]

Been thinking... always a dangerous endeavor...

Do any engravers on this forum - European, Brit, Irish, Asian, East Asian, South American, or the other dozens of places across the pond - happen to own or have images of other "antique" contraptions that were used to aid in the sharpening of gravers?


Brian

 

[Marcelo]

I appreciate everyone's attention. I am a beginner, but determined. We do not have in my country recorders, this activity is not common here, we have no books, no proper tools. Everything is made or imported. So everything is very expensive. I think this forum puts knowledge instead. Just as it is only possible to swim in water, knowledge has its own means in the dialogue. Learn from books or teachers is a sign of respect and evolution, not just to save time, maybe that's the least of the worries. I confess I was somewhat confused. I'm not sure how to proceed. I made a grinding 120, 45, but the heel as Mr. Sam, his free hand and it worked, but I can not repeat it. Hence bought dual angle and lindsay templates but can not a good result. Of course, take into account my inexperience, but I'm trying and I count those who have taken this path and is willing to help.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Marcelo,


Where on the planet are you?

Is it possible that there are historical ornaments that were engraved where you are?

Is there any kind of engraving being done anywhere close to you - right now?


Can you take & send images or better yet video of what your attempts at sharpening look like?

Skype?


Brian

 

[monk]

no geometry will a good engraver make !! as mr.marshall mentioned, try them all. what works well in my hand may not in yours. experimentation is never a waste of time. to this day, i still experiment with pattern transfer materials & techniques. i've tried them all. and as with graver geometry, no one way is always going to be the best for a given job.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Yeah, Monk...

I've found that sometimes the geometry needs to change with the phase of the moon as well as the job at hand.

And that leaves out all the other variables, like getting out on the wrong side of the bed or not carefully counting the beers before sitting down to cut.

Or standing/wobbling next to the vise if you are doing hammer & chisel?

(In Leonards case, it mostly depends on whether he's had his yogurt treatment recently)


B.


Note to Marcelo - don't pay any attention to this stuff. It's got nothing to do with your question or the answer to it.

 

[Haraga.com]

Brian, why did you have to mention the yogurt? You know I don't have any and it's 55 miles to town.

 

[sam]

Just had a key lime pie yogurt.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Hopefully not in the manner Dr. Kellogg prescribed it to Leonard...


B.

 

[Haraga.com]

What manner is that Brian?

 

[Brian Marshall]

Poor Marcelo...

Don't give up Marcelo! Eventually one of us WILL actually answer your questions and give you the advice you are asking for.

Most of what you are reading are jokes or things that don't really help you.


It would help a lot if we could SEE how you are sharpening or at least a magnified image of the point you are getting on your graver. From the bottom.


Brian


Can you put up images, video or Skype?

 

[Chujybear]

Marcelo.
I think that you said you are doing jewellery. If that's the case I have hand pushed a lot of his geometries without too much grief.
Have you been using other geometries without any trouble? Or are you only working with the templates (sorry if you answered this one elsewhere in the thread).
The other question I would have would be what you mean by 'drawn' when you describe the edge of your cuts.
I do find that the parralel heal requires greater concentration in order to keep cuts consistent. The flip side of this is that it work beautifully when you intend to vary the depth (differences or actually marginal, but note able to me).
The conventional heal (little triangles on each angle of your graver) I find way easier to hold constant depth. Little more drag on tight corners. (Though word on the street is I just gots to keep my elbow even)
If you like the template system, and want to use a conventional heal on a 90, then use the Ray Cover square template. It gives conventional heal.

 

[KCSteve]

You can adjust the face angle on the Lindsay template system by adjusting how far out the graver sticks from the holder. I believe I have the list here somewhere... Sorry, not finding it right now by a search over on the Lindsay forum will turn it up.

Steve also has a 'dual angle template'. It's a clever little thing. Not quite as repeatable on the rotational angles (smaller markings) and for the 'tilt' angles (what you use for the face) it gets... interesting. What angle you get depends both on how far out the graver sticks and which of the holes you use and which side of the template you've got down.

The reason you want a graver sharpening system is that it gives you a repeatable geometry. A Crocker system can do the same thing. Maybe not as 'nice' a geometry, but in theory the same one each time.

I've done a very little bit of old-fashioned sharpening, using a guide rod on the side of a manual stone. I think it's actually better for the old style gravers like onglettes, and if you want the old style heels, well, that is the way they made them.

 

[Brian Marshall]

Marcelo, we WILL help you! (there is sometimes a lot of distraction)

But we need to SEE or get a better description of what the exact problem is.

Don't give up until you get what you need.


Brian

 

[JJ Roberts]

I been using Martin Strolz's geometry for push engraving and find I get some nice detail when engraving birds & animals.Glad Martin shared this geometry. J.J.

 

[Marrinan]

I have three of the Lindsay templates. They do what they are supposed to do.

Now, any of you dedicated users of these templates interested in selling me the stubs when the gravers are to short to use in the fixture anymore. It will help you keep your bench free of clutter. Fred

 

[MarkyMark]

Ive Just Joined and wish you all well, Ive gained many tips from you guys, so massive Thx...I dare say will be asking questions of the forum through my journey.....i know nothing, but an enginerrs head and a s"crap"e book full of scrolls practice,but i wanted to contribute also, I was in Istanbul Turkey, during the lockdown and rejigged an old 1900s US vice I found at a market into an engraving vice....ohh my its the coolest little vice , its called a Yankee..and made some templates, laazer cut shop some cutting board material, worked out the Math with a knitting needle, some standard verniers (more accuracy than digital ones,its a fact) and an metal engineers protractor.....long story short, the start of my engraving Journey begins, but my first cuts on the 90 seem good, and ive managed to get a more push type heel, than parallel..method, by adjusting the perpendicular angle of the set up (plate and graver) to the sharpening plate...that way you can get 15 degrees consistant and two small triangles...

 

[mtlctr]

Brian's right. Here are a couple of antique Crockers. The one on the right I recently received as a gift from JJ Roberts (love ya' JJ!).

I've certainly poked fun at these old fixtures but as you can see from the wear and tear, these were in use for many, many years. And no doubt the gravers sharpened with them produced the beautiful work that we modern day engravers admire and envy. I think there are better and more accurate options for today's engraver, but it would be a mistake to dismiss these old workhorses.

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As a retired machinist, a lot of problems are operator error and failure to understand the limitations of the equipment you’re using.